setup ??s and crossover question

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by Corey-Reid, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. Corey-Reid

    Corey-Reid Stunt Coordinator

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    Here is the equipment I have.
    60 inch mitsubishi big screen, Yamaha RX-V2090 receiver, Toshiba 3109 dvd, boston cr6 for rear, boston vr10 center. My mains are some kenwood floorstanding speakers that were a part of a rack system. They are 3 ways with 12 inch woofer, 5-1/4 in mids and 1 inch tweeter.

    I have an energy es10 sub, the woofer blew and I stuck in a punch ten inch car woofer that is 10 times better than the actual energy that was originally in the energy to begin with.

    Now for a couple of questions.

    When I was into car audio, any system I ever heard that was good, always had an electronic crossover where you could tweak it to your liking, this gave you tons of flexibility.
    Are seperate crossovers used in home audio?
    My mains are a 3 way speaker that must have passive crossovers.
    Do top line mains have seperate adjustable crossover points for each speaker?

    My Toshiba dvd has 5.1 channel outs to go into the 5.1 channel inputs on my yamaha. Can you use the front effects speakers with this kind of setup? If I can, does using front effect speakers really improve the quality of overall system?

    My mains???/ How much can I improve my setup by geting some top notch mains?

    All of todays receivers come with 5 channel same output power. The rxv 2090 has 100w for center and mains, but 35 w to the rears, how does this impact things?

    Lastly, the rxv2090 has been a good receiver for me, will upgrading this actually benefit me. 5.1 channel is 5.1 channels correct?


    I have been in school for the past 4 years, so money has been pretty tight. Things are looking up, so daddy is possibly ready to get some new toys again[​IMG] Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. HowY

    HowY Extra

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    I havent seen seperate "adjustable" passive x-overs
    on ANY system (not that it's not possible)

    Many systems have "l-pads" that serve the purpose
    of attenuating a drivers responce to help bring
    differing sensitivities closer together

    ie: a tweeter with an spl of 93 to a driver
    with a low 89db... the L-pad is basically
    a shelving circuit to lower the tweeter's
    sensitivity a few db to match the driver.

    As to the car remember it's the AMP that allows
    this kind of tweaking and not the speaker itself.

    With just a sub it's a simple circuit (x-over)
    that tailors the signal to the driver/box
    so it's not a "swap" unless the drivers are
    close in sensitivities and Q's. The new driver
    has more excursion (need more box volume) and
    likely has a different responce curve (not well
    matched to the existing inductor).

    In general (very general) terms ALL home speakers
    would have a "passive" crossover of some sort and
    'tho I say "simple circuit" it's complexity comes
    with matching the driver to the enclosure....

    I'd almost assume your trying to run this driver
    in a seal'd enclosure where a ported suits the
    new driver better....



    Now if this is a passive sub (uses hi-level input)
    time to get a plate amp! otherwise if it's already
    amp'ed then your hitting enclosure issues since
    sub/plate amps allow for the same general controls
    that car amps provide (thus enclosure issues)

    As I understood the question....
     
  3. Corey-Reid

    Corey-Reid Stunt Coordinator

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    I'd almost assume your trying to run this driver
    in a seal'd enclosure where a ported suits the
    new driver better....



    To be honest, I dont recall if the punch 10 calls for a sealed or ported enclosure. You are correct, the enclosure on the energy is sealed, and it seems to be fine to me. Like i said, it sounds better now with the punch 10 installed than it did brand new.
     
  4. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    AVR receivers do all the crossing-over, digitally
     
  5. Corey-Reid

    Corey-Reid Stunt Coordinator

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    But the receiver sends 1 signal to each speaker. In the case of a 3 way speaker, doesnt the speaker have a passive crossover built into it that then filters out which frequencies go to each speaker? For example, the center channel speaker is receiving the information designated for the center channel, it is not just receiving the high frequencies from the center channel

    My understanding was that the receiver decodes the signal and sends each channel the correct information. would you clarify your answer a little more please.
     
  6. Robert_J

    Robert_J Lead Actor

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    A three way speaker should have a 3 way passive crossover that divides the sound among the 3 individual drivers. Also your receiver is filtering all of the sound from 120hz (or 80hz or whatever you have the crossover set at) and sending the lowest notes to your sub. What you described earlier is an using an active system with an amp on each driver of your 3 way speaker. That works great if your speaker was designed for it.

    -Robert
     
  7. HowY

    HowY Extra

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    Cory...


    You've got it down...
    _________________________________________________
    Now lets not confuse thing's 'tho....

    The 5.1 standard is a means of MASTERING audio.

    The engineer determines what "sound" meaning noise
    that goes to what channel.

    We've finally got a serious platform for surround and
    (my opine) the stinkin' audio engineers SUK. Vocal 'ya
    cant hear music that blast's ya outta the seat so there
    is a huge amount of improvement to be made just in the
    USE of 5.1 from an engineering point of view. Like to
    string up most of them....

    Pardon the rant - However an engineer needs to focus
    your attention at the screen (center) channel so I'm
    going to really hit it hardest followed by the front
    pair to make my "sound stage" the rest is really just
    fill and effects... dog barking etc.

    As to Sub's on the LFE get FREE read the polk audio
    write up on bass management and loose that stinking'
    "sub = yes" in your setup the ONLY DSP to use is
    DOLBY DIGITAL or stereo-(sacd/audio dvd IS dolby digital)....

    So to answer your question you are correct in that
    ALL signals from 20-20k are available to each channel.
    (or better put should be)

    NOW then we have the DSP that steps in and strips
    (generally for example) 150 and down for the sub...

    If you have set up as "small" then you choke out
    low/high freq's set to Large they recv' the full
    spectrun the SPEAKERS crossover will filter.

    Reality: speakers accept full range and filter
    via their own x-over

    Digitally: your DSP plays hell with signals not
    only stripping out freq's that your speakers CAN
    handle but adding amounts of delay - reverb etc.

    Sum-Up: The CENTER SHOULD be the big dog!
    after all the studio engineers slam it hard and
    that little thing sitting up on the 'set cant handle
    it.... Front drivers next which make up the stage
    and keep the "viewer" focused on the screen....

    FWIW
     
  8. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Moderator

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    Corey,

    Technically your receiver isn’t a 5.1 receiver. Those are Dolby Digital receivers, and yours is an older model with only Dolby Pro-Logic. The benefits of upgrading would be higher rear power, digital inputs for various sources, discrete 5.1 capability for sources other than DVD (like a digital cable box or satellite), component video switching, the ability to mix composite, S- and component video signals, etc.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  9. Corey-Reid

    Corey-Reid Stunt Coordinator

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    For the past several years Yamaha’s receivers have been able to use the effects speakers (which come into play with the DSP modes) with 5.1 sources, but they all have built-in Dolby Digital decoding. Your receiver relies on an outboard decoder, so I’m not sure if it’s possible with your receiver. You can always hook them up and see.




    You are correct, but since any 5.1 format my yamaha will be handling is coming from an outboard decoder, why would they even have front effects speakers if they couldnt be used. I guess that is more of a rhetorical question[​IMG] It must get some signal, but from where?? This is confusing to me here. It cant get the same signal the rears get, and duplicating the mains would seem foolish. Any help here fellas??



    Technically your receiver isn’t a 5.1 receiver. Those are Dolby Digital receivers, and yours is an older model with only Dolby Pro-Logic. The benefits of upgrading would be higher rear power, digital inputs for various sources, discrete 5.1 capability for sources other than DVD (like a digital cable box or satellite), component video switching, the ability to mix composite, S- and component video signals, etc.


    I have the phillips Tivo DVR, it has a digital audio out, but is much of the things on tv in anything more than stereo format?? I guess i havent been around enough high quality systmes to know how much better the sound would be from my dish if I were able to use the digital audio out vs the two channel RCAs that I am currently using.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  10. Robert_J

    Robert_J Lead Actor

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    With DirecTV, a few shows on HBO and Showtime are DD5.1. There are also a few that are DD2.0. A few of the new PPV channels are 5.1 but they cut back on Sundays when they show NFL games in HD.

    -Robert
     
  11. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    They could still be used for radio and all the other source components one might have connected to the receiver.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     

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