1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Set front speakers to small even though they're large?

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by ShawnKubik, Aug 6, 2004.

  1. ShawnKubik

    ShawnKubik Extra

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just connected a JBL e250p to my Sony STR-DE597 last night, cable wasn't permitting me to get it in a corner so it sits next to my left floorstanding speaker (i have one of those simulated wood entertainment center pos's with a 27" flat screen in it)... the front speakers are floorstanding 3 ways with 12" woofers

    I have the gain set to just over half and the SW output to +0db on the reciever (using a LFE connection), phase is 0, I have my front speakers set to "LARGE" because well, they're large, but I guess that impacts what frequencies are directed towards the sub?

    I feel like the sub hasn't added a whole lot and it could be configuration or placement, this is my first "home theatre"... i'm using coax connection from my dvd player and lfe to the sub

    any suggestions?
     
  2. ShawnKubik

    ShawnKubik Extra

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One thing i'm pondering is, if i purchase a longer rca cable, i thought of putting the subwoofer in the lefthand corner of the room with the woofer itself facing the couch, which is directly parallel with the entertainment center (about 8 feet from the tv and 12-14 feet away from that corner i speak of)

    sound like a better placement?
     
  3. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 1998
    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Large vs Small has nothing to do with the physical size of the speaker it has to do with how low the speaker can play. Since very few speakers can play low enough for DVD's you're almost always best of setting all speakers to small and set the crossover at an appropriate point (typically around 80 hz)
     
  4. ShawnKubik

    ShawnKubik Extra

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i don't have an option for "crossover" settings, i think the reciever decides this on it's own, but you're saying the recommended setting would be SMALL for front/center/rear and letting the sub take care of it all huh?
     
  5. Lee Carbray

    Lee Carbray Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That is the most popular way to set it up and probably a good starting point. If the receiver does not have a crossover adjustment, don't worry about it.

    Somethings you have not mentioned are what type of material are you using to evaluate your new addition. DVD's, music, etc. The best would be an action type DVD and make sure you are getting Dolby Digital output. Make sure its not Prologic.

    You also did not mention if there is a crossover dial on the sub and what it is at. I am not familiar with the JBL but tyically most have one. Make sure it is set to it's highest setting.

    And the most important thing to do is make sure it is calibrated to the same level as the other speakers. How did you determine to set the gain to just over half?

    Cheers
     
  6. ShawnKubik

    ShawnKubik Extra

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i use dolby digital or dts "action" dvd movies to evaluate performance

    i don't have a spl monitor, i need to rearrange my subwoofer and try setting the other speakers to "small", the crossover adjustment on my sub is inoperative when LFE mode is used, gain was set blindly to what i felt was appropriate
     
  7. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    What are your options for the sub setting in the receiver? (LFE, both/mix, etc...). You do not want the sub set to LFE only, as this will dramatically reduce the information sent to it. LFE is basically present only in DD and DTS tracks, not 2ch music, TV, etc...

    You REALLY don't want to drive large, power hungry speakers with this receiver, so setting them to small is your best bet.
     
  8. ShawnKubik

    ShawnKubik Extra

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't really have any other options, correct... in "2 channel" modes, the sub does not play, but when i set my sources to "AUTO AFD" it will resort to 2.1 by itself, i.e. FM or my normal CD player
     
  9. Larry Hoffman

    Larry Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2001
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You've probably done this, but make sure you set the sub setting in your reciever to yes and your speakers all to small.
    If there is no crossover point in the reciever, set it at 80hz on the sub. If there is a crossover point in the reciever, set the one on the sub at its highest setting. If you can adjust it, set it at 80Hz.
    I don't know why it shouldn't play in two channel modes, unless you can adjust your settings for each mode independently. If so, go into each mode and make sure the sub is set to yes and you adjust the xover settings etc as described.
    Larry
     
  10. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John

    As I noted before, if it is set to LFE only, there is no LFE present in 2ch music, so the sub won't have anything to play.

    I believe we had a similar problem when setting up my friends 475, and found that there were two places where the sub had to be set for it to work.
     
  11. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The corner placement should help signficantly. See this thread for some additonal information that might be helpful.
     
  12. ShawnKubik

    ShawnKubik Extra

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I set the other channels to small, crossover setting is based on this and fixed, subwoofer crossover is inactive when a LFE source is used (i.e. subwoofer out in my reciever)... in 2 channel situations the reciever does not output to the sub unless i'm in "AFD AUTO" mode, which it becomes 2 fronts and sub, sounds fine

    moved the sub to the right side of the entertainment center pretty much 7-8 feet directly in front of the right side of the couch, seems to do ok... might try a corner firing diagonal at the couch next
     
  13. David Strand

    David Strand Agent

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have an older onkyo TX-DS676 receiver and it does not have any options regarding subwoofer crossover. I assume there is one but I'm not sure what the freq is. If I set my sub to not use it's own internal crossover, or set it at the highest setting, it sounds horrible...
     
  14. Will d s

    Will d s Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am a fan of large settings all around and letting the sub handle the lfe. Place your sub in the prefered spot, calibrate it and then try both ways.
     
  15. TimRP

    TimRP Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I didn't know there were still people out there that haven't bought a SPL meter...[​IMG]

    Really its a good investment in your sound system, try as hard as you like your ears a not a good way to measure sound levels, they are only $40~ and its a 40 dollars well spent.
     
  16. tong chwen

    tong chwen Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What is SPL meter?
    I'm newbie in HT......
    What does SPL stand for?

    Thank you. [​IMG]
     
  17. Jon W.

    Jon W. Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    An SPL meter or db meter measures the sound pressure coming from the speakers. I believe SPL stands for Sound Pressure Level. Using the pink noise test tones from your receiver or from a DVD, an SPL meter will allow you to get all the speakers volume levels to match so that each speaker when called upon will sound the same.

    I'm not talented at explaining things but thats my best effort...[​IMG]
     
  18. Matthew Todd

    Matthew Todd Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2000
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    Hi David. I've got the same receiver. I believe the crossover is fixed at 100Hz.

    Interesting that it sounds bad when avoiding the sub's internal crossover. I haven't noticed that with mine. I have all speakers set to small and the sub's (SVS 16-46PCi) internal crossover disabled.

    I assume you've set your speakers to small? It would seem that by doing what you're doing (setting the sub crossover at something other than disabled or its highest setting) you will be missing some of the higher low frequencies (basically between your crossover setting on the sub and the fixed 100Hz setting in the receiver, although understand that crossovers are not brick walls. There is a slope involved).

    It might sound better because this bass info (say 80-100Hz) IS directional, and you can localize it coming from the sub, which might sound bad.

    Matt
     
  19. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John

    As was mentioned before, if you don't have speakers to cover well into the bottom octave, this setup is not going to work well. While you may gain some midbass performance, you are missing out on the impact of low bass information that is not LFE, and depending on the speakers, may actually create a huge gap between the speaker's response and the LFE point.
     
  20. Gary Seven

    Gary Seven Grand Poo Pah

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    211
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Lake Worth, Florida
    Real Name:
    Gaston
    I set my mains to large since they go down to 30hz easily. However, I set the crossover to 80hz. On my system, doing it this way gives me the freedom to adjust crossover to my liking. Setting speaker to small takes away the crossover adjustment, thus the receiver send everything below (I believe its 120) to the sub.

    I also have large for the rears as well with a similar adjustment.
     

Share This Page