International Sergio Leone Blu-ray thread

Lil Brutto

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Regarding the Italian print that has been photographed and put on that site has it been confimed to be a reference with regard to color timing by Leone or his cinematographer or is it just the most complete print that remains of the Italian cut?
This is a different print. The one you're thinking of is in the hands of Cineteca Nazionale in Rome.
 

Danny_N

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On the site of the Cineteca di Bologna, the Cineteca Nazionale is thanked for their involvement with the 4K restoration:

Restauro promosso da Cineteca di Bologna, Leone Film Group, Metro Goldwyn Mayer al laboratorio L’Immagine Ritrovata. Si ringraziano Alberto Grimaldi e CSC – Cineteca Nazionale
Of course I don't know what exactly they are thanked for but they were involved.
 

OliverK

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You should ask professor Flueckiger that. Or contact Cineteca di Bologna who own the print and are responsible for the 4K restoration that we have on the MGM BD. I doubt you'll get answers to your questions here.

Btw, you have every right to contact the professor because ...
The database with pics of colour movies she maintains is part of a research project. That project received a grant of 2.9 million euro from the EU :eek:. So as European tax payers we have actually contributed to those pics appearing on her site :lol:.

From her blog:
Hey Danny, you are making a good point there - I have paid for this already with my tax Euros :D
 

Lil Brutto

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Now another person has posted clips from HIS dye transfer prints that interestingly look nothing like these clips - he tells me he adjusted for carbon arc but a simple look at these clips will tell you he did not. These clips look very similar to the MGM BD, just as my old print did.
Well, well, well, it seems you either didn't bother comparing my previous color-corrected screencaps with these images or you should get your eyes checked. Seriously.

The reality is these clips look very similar to my adjusted clips. Reduce the yellow/green of these newly surfaced images a bit and you'll have the correct look. Whereas the MGM 4K BD still has that pesky green cast in addition to the other flaws of the 4K master that got so many people upset. (Except you of course.)




Perhaps it's time you actually read and internalize what others are saying about the flaws of the MGM 4K BD rather than going on like a broken record without any EVIDENCE of your own to support your opinions. (I'd really to see some images of the IB TECH print you supposedly owned because you keep going on about it. Can you get back to me/us with something...anything?)

Since you obviously missed it before, once again here is what a couple others have correctly pointed out previously - one of whom was responding directly to your incessant comments - as the issues with the MGM 4K BD. HINT: It's not JUST the yellow cast ;)

As I've said before, the 2014 was corrected scene by scene, so certain scenes are better than others in terms of color. It's mostly the outdoor scenes that seem overdone. Absolutely, there are scenes with blue skies, and there are also scenes with green skies. There are scenes with green teeth and green union uniforms. You personally don't think it's too yellow/green, but it's hard to argue against the fact that the majority of people out there do. Do I personally think it's piss soaked etc all the way through? No, but the yellow/green is overdone in a LOT of scenes, and the film is needlessly dark/crushed in spots, especially during scenes like the beating.

It's pretty obvious that Kino did a blanket yellow remove over the whole thing, instead of a scene by scene correction. They left the overdone green in, AND they decreased the black levels across the board. They removed all the yellow without compensating for the saturation loss. Some scenes needed it so those look better, other scenes were fine in the 2014 (mostly indoor scenes) so now those look terrible.

The fans asked Kino to address a problem. It may not have been a problem for YOU, but again, the majority of people out there thought it was too yellow/green...
The thing that's interesting to me is that it always seemed that it was the *green* being too boosted, which then had the effect of making it look too yellow. Reduce the green a bit and the blues and reds balance out better and the "yellow" would be minimized without losing saturation.
Thank you Danny N for posting that link - it really clarifies things so simply - and you should post it to that other site. Oh, what a howling there will be :) Kino, in trying to appease these folks, did no one a service. They should have left it alone.
If you do post on the other forum please don't forget to include the screencaps above. Oh, what a howling there will be. :)
 
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haineshisway

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Supposedly? I recommend you knock it off with the personal remarks, Li'l Brutto or I will put on my very best Brutto for you.

The problem here, as I have had to explain too many times for you, is that the MGM green cap does not look like what I'm seeing on the actual Blu-ray. I'm bored to death of seeing the same green sky caps used ad nauseum - THEY are the problem. AND: the IB print caps have much more yellow than your "corrected" caps. If YOU can't see that perhaps it is you who needs the new eyeballs. The IB caps actually look like the MGM Blu - your "corrected" caps do not. Which was my point. Are you now going to sit there and tell me that your "corrected" caps (corrected - I had no idea you were a seasoned restoration pro) match the IB caps - they don't. AND: If you pulled that fake green out of the MGM caps they, too, would match the IB caps. Once again: The MGM caps have been inaccurate from the day they appeared.
 

Lil Brutto

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Supposedly? I recommend you knock it off with the personal remarks, Li'l Brutto or I will put on my very best Brutto for you.

The problem here, as I have had to explain too many times for you, is that the MGM green cap does not look like what I'm seeing on the actual Blu-ray. I'm bored to death of seeing the same green sky caps used ad nauseum - THEY are the problem. AND: the IB print caps have much more yellow than your "corrected" caps. If YOU can't see that perhaps it is you who needs the new eyeballs. The IB caps actually look like the MGM Blu - your "corrected" caps do not. Which was my point. Are you now going to sit there and tell me that your "corrected" caps (corrected - I had no idea you were a seasoned restoration pro) match the IB caps - they don't. AND: If you pulled that fake green out of the MGM caps they, too, would match the IB caps. Once again: The MGM caps have been inaccurate from the day they appeared.
The personal remarks were directed at me in practically all your recent posts in this thread. Now it upsets you when I put on my hainesmyway for you?

You said that MY "dye transfer prints that interestingly look nothing like these clips." Why don't you have a look again at the comparisons above. This time put your glasses on. Do you see the yellowish clouds in the 35mm photo capture? You really think that's correct? Yellow clouds?? Also jaundiced skin tones??

Go ahead and actually "pull that fake green out of the MGM caps" yourself and see what happens. Then post your corrected screencap here if you can't deliver on anything else of substance. Rambling on about the IB print that you SUPPOSEDLY owned adds nothing to this debate.

I think it's time you knock it off. You're way past the point of sounding ridiculous. I've indulged you long enough.
 
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haineshisway

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Seriously, friend, just stop. I made NO personal remarks about you and out of respect for the folks who moderate I'll bite my tongue for now.

SUPPOSEDLY? No supposedly about it, but, you know, it's interesting you were begging me to see if the guy I sold it to would sell it to you. Funny that. I'm not the one who looks ridiculous, chum. I owned more 35mm IB prints than just about anyone when I was in my collecting phase. I had the best IB Vertigo anywhere - I had all the Leones, I had all the Bonds - my guess would be that the number of IB prints you've actually seen in your life would not extend beyond the fingers of your two hands. I, on the other hand, grew up with IB (and carbon arc, something else you've never seen).

I leave the rest to you.
 
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DaveF

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Stop the personal attacks, by all parties involved.

You seem to be at an impasse. I suggest you've made your points and should move on.

Don't be this guy. This guy never wins:
https://www.xkcd.com/386/
 

Lil Brutto

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@Lil Brutto
You may want to reconsider directly posting those pics from professor Flueckiger's site here or anywhere else. There could be copyright on them. Check the copyright notice at the top of her site.
I missed that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Barbara Flueckiger replied to me this morning and I just sent her another email requesting permission to use these 2 images.

UPDATE: She gave me permission to use individual pics.
 
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Jordan Krug

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Here is a link to my first draft of an in-depth analysis of all the home video releases of the film. (8 min) Just looking at one scene, (Manco's entrance) we can see how the edit and sound have been tampered with repeatedly. I look forward to seeing/hearing if Kino has finally restored the film to Leone's intentions.

 

haineshisway

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It's not a "deleted" scene, really, as it was never even edited and therefore not in the film at any point to be deleted. Lots of movies have stuff like this, scenes shot but never even put into an assemblage. Maybe call it an unused sequence.
 

Grubert

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No problem for me to call such scenes "deleted scenes" or "cut scenes". Same goes for scenes from the screenplay which were not even shot.
 
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OliverK

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Agreed.

Any news on the next set of releases?

UHd Blu Ray??
As much as I love UHD Blu-ray I doubt that we would get many chances to get UHD right so I would prefer to first have a really good Blu-ray. I should have the Italian/European and the US theatrical cuts that by most accounts were approved by Sergio Leone. A version that includes every sniplet of film that was ever found for TGTBATU is not necessary imo.
 

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