Sea Change SACD vs redbook (1 Viewer)

[Nick White]

I used the analog outs of my SCD-CE775 to make a redbook copy of Sea Change for my car. I compared it with my friends copy of the retail redbook CD and noticed slightly more bass in the redbook mix. I was curious if anyone else had compared this. Could it be the method or software I used to to record it on to my computer? Or is it something in the actual mix of the redbook vs. SACD?

Just so people know, I used SoundForge.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Does the SCD-CE775 have bass management? Did you turn it all the way off?

 

[Miles]

Hey Nick,

I had noticed the very same thing and was wondering if it was something to do with the multi-channel output on my 670 player. It's the only multi-channel SACD disc I have, so I had nothing to compare it to.

Let me know if you find out anything,


Miles

 

[Phil A]

It also depends on the A to D conversion in the CD recorder that one uses. Most of the home decks do not have outstanding circuitry in this area. They are made so that one can perform this function, not necessarily well. Marantz made a reference recorder at one point, Pioneer Elite made a good unit (I dpn't believe it is currently made) and Tascam makes a good one as well.

 

[Nick White]

I'm using a PC CD-R, so it would have to do with the soundcard, most likely. I used an RCA to mini cable and plugged it into the line-in of the soundcard (SoundBlaster).

I don't know if the SCD-CE775 has bass management or not. However I haven't noticed a lack of bass with any of my other titles, and I'm using the stereo outs, not the multichannel outs.

I suppose I'll do some research. Any more input is welcome.

 

[LanceJ]

I used the analog outs of my SCD-CE775 to make a redbook copy of Sea Change for my car.

But I thought sacd was a "secure" format? (Nothing personal Nick.)

LJ

 

[Nick White]

I looked up the specs on the CE775, and it does have bass management. Does anyone know what a proper setup for this would be, if I found the bass lacking?

As far as SACD being a secure format, they still don't allow digital out for SACD. I suppose their assumption is that analog copies will have degradation in quality, though people on this forum have stated there is still a slight improvement over normal redbook.

It's fair use!!

 

[Rich Malloy]

But I thought sacd was a "secure" format?

Me, too! How did you make a "red book" copy of a non hybrid SACD anyway, Nick? Some sort of analog>digital conversion like they vinyl guys do to make CD-Rs for A:B comparisons?

 

[Phil A]

Not at all Rich. When I first got my XA-777ES last summer, I hooked it up for about 30 minutes and since I already had 2 Rel Storm IIIs on the front, had a Strata III in the bedroom system that I could move in as well as a Phase Technology Octave 1.0 (with a built in electronic crossover) sitting around, the Strata ended up in the rear and I bought a (Rel) Q150 for the center so I just did my bass management differently.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Hi Phil, not sure what you're responding to exactly, but sounds like a great system!

Nick, I found a review of the "SEA CHANGE" SACD by Michael Fremer, who does a brief comparison to the CD, and even comments along the lines of your "CD-R experiment" (but with different results):

[SEA CHANGE] is Beck's first album not to be released on wax, but there is a superb-sounding, ultra-dynamic SACD that reveals layers of information, low-level detail, and especially top and bottom extension--extension that the compressed, dry CD misses. Compare the CD and the SACD and you'll swear you're hearing a different recording. The sound rating [9] is for the SACD: the standard CD gets a seven!

Unfortunately, the SACD is not a hybrid disc, so you'll need an SACD-equipped player to listen, and the standard CD if you want to listen in the car. Isn't that special? (Or you can burn a CD-R from the SACD player's analog outputs and still get better sound than the commercial CD, for reasons I don't understand.)

Full review: http://musicangle.com/Beck.html

 

[Joshua Moran]

I don't know how it could sound better. Because when you burn the wav file to a CDR. The burning software has to convert it to 16bit 44khz. Unless of course the commerical redbook version is purposely more compressed so that the SACD version sounds more clean and crisp. Maybe Sony needs to change their name to $ony

 

[Rich Malloy]

Unless of course the commerical redbook version is purposely more compressed so that the SACD version sounds more clean and crisp...

You may have been joking, but you may also be onto something here!

I don't know if this applies to maximizing and compressing, but as I understand it many of the digital tools that have so corrupted the sound quality of CD releases are not even available in the DSD realm (*yet).

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Even if you can't compress the dynamics of DSD with current tools (which I seriously doubt), you could always compress it in the analog domain first. Even if you were recording direct to DSD, you could compress first.

Hey, does anybody know how Sea Change was recorded?

 

[Phil A]

Rich was just confirming your observations on the bass management which I tried very briefly. The Rels run off a high level connection and are crossed over at a low point to just fill in the bass not produced by the mains or center or surrounds vs. using the bass management in the SACD player.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

So if the bass management is through the subs off of the speaker-level connections, where does the .1 bass go?

If the .1 bass is being lost, the factory Redbook disc will have more bass (assuming the same mix was used for both stereo versions). CD and SACD are both flat enough that the format shouldn't make a difference in the amount of bass.

What's the SPL meter say?

 

[Joshua Moran]

I was semi jokeing in my post. I feel that there may be some fixing involved in the differences between the redbook and SACD version. However I don't know if it was due to bad mastering like someone feel asleep at the wheel on the redbook side. Or if the SACD version is overcooked.

Then of course Beck could have added things to the SACD version to make it special and that two different master tapes exist. Can anyone confirm that the SACD version is from the redbook master?