Screens and Projectors

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Joko Tanoyo, May 7, 2002.

  1. Joko Tanoyo

    Joko Tanoyo Auditioning

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    Hey guys,

    I am new here too and am starting my own home theater system and looking at a 100-inch Stewart screen along with a few possible choices of front projections.

    So, here's a scenario, since I have no idea how much a projector should cost, if money is of no object/consequence:

    1. What brand would you pick and why?

    2. What would be your most important feature?

    3. Does price directly reflect performance?

    4. What is an average price for a projector? I've seen extreme differences from $1400 up to $10,000.

    5. Are there different types of projectors for home cinema use? My uncle has a HUGE projector with the 3 different RGB lenses up front. Yet, I've also seen 6-10lb small projectors with just 1 lens up front. I am confused. Does size matter? (uhh, no pun intended!)

    Thanks for all your help.
     
  2. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    Welcome to the forum Joko. How's the weather over there?
    1. If money was no object [​IMG] I would go for a Vidikron HD CRT which costs around US$70K. But, if I am restricted to a reasonable budget, I would pick the Sharp 9000 DLP projector.
    2. Most important feature would be
    3. More or less, although I have seen great performance from some projectors costing around $4K.
    4. Average cost I would say is around $6K
    5. There are basically 3 major types out there.
    - CRT (3 gun. Red, Green, and Blue). Generally more expensive, larger and heavier. Must be setup in one exact position then convergence must be done. Picture is generally very good with good black levels.
    - LCD (single lens) generally cheaper with not as good black levels but very easy to setup and move around.
    - DLP (single lens) similar to LCD except it uses a different method to generate the "pixels".
    There are good projectors in all the categories. For instance, the Sony VPL VW11HT and the Sanyo VPL 60HT are 2 good LCD projectors that have a very decent image.
     
  3. Joko Tanoyo

    Joko Tanoyo Auditioning

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    Thanks for your help! Now I can begin to narrow down the choices.

    *scribbles on notepad* $70k for a projector.....OUCH!

    Any other suggestions? I read that while DLP has an edge over LCD, its price is still out of reach for most consumers? I think I read that the cheapest is around $9k?
     
  4. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    I believe that is around what the Sharp 9000 costs.
     
  5. Gabriel_Lam

    Gabriel_Lam Screenwriter

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    1. JVC DLA-QX1, no question about it.
    [​IMG]
    3 Panel D-ILA Engine w/ 2000 watt Xenon lamp
    2048x1536 QXGA native resolution
    7000 ANSI Lumens
    1000:1 contrast ratio
    $225,000 without lens and without HD-SDI Input module. As purchased by a bunch of high rollers at Cebit, closer to $250,000.
    2. On this unit? Resolution. Of course, it's also nice that this unit has the legendary high pixel fill ratio of LCOS/DILA projectors (>93%, whereas DLP is about 85-88%, and LCD is about 80-85%), very high contrast ratio, and enough lumens for a really REALLY big screen.
    3. Oh yes. This is the only digital projector that can fully resolve 1080p.
    4.Average price for a home theater unit is probably close to $4-6k, though prices are falling. For the higher end of digital projectors, you're talking $12-15k. For CRT's, a 7" will not be too expensive, but if you want a 9", it's quite a bit more, about $30-40k new?
    5. Four major types:
    1. 3 chip LCOS/DILA: Highest cost, highest fill ratio, no rainbow effect, excellent colors.
    2. 1 or 3 chip DLP units: 3 Chip have high high costs, high fill ratio, no rainbow effect, and excellent colors too. 1 chip do have rainbows, though faster the wheel, the less the rainbows. Reasonably high fill ratio, and good colors. Highest contrast ratio
    3. 3 chip LCD: Lowest cost, lowest fill ratio (though close to DLP with MLA equipped LCD panels), no rainbows, least expensive, bright for the cost, contrast ratio is low, but now rising.
    4. 3 tube CRT: High cost, especially on the high end, no rainbows, great colors, lowest black levels, expensive and difficult to maintain, dimmest of the 4 by far.
    If I had
     
  6. Joko Tanoyo

    Joko Tanoyo Auditioning

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    Thanks once again...

    ...if only I have 1/4 of you guys' knowledge....
     
  7. Mark Larson

    Mark Larson Supporting Actor

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    Do you want to do 1080i?? Do you want to do 1080p ?? Forget digital. Come to the dark side. CRT.
    It gives better than theater black levels, and can resolve a whole bunch of resolutions, just like your CRT monitor. For around $ 5 000, you can get a 1292 or other 9" PJ, which, although huge, gives unsurpassed picture quality.
    Don't buy CRT if:
    You'll always have ambient light.
    Want a setup so easy even a woman can do it. [​IMG] You wouldn't want that would you??? [​IMG]
    Can't persuade the wife to let you sit a 150 lb monster in the theater/living room or hang from the ceiling.
    I have a 1030Q1, and i'm still getting used to the 65" wide image. [​IMG] (New to FPTV [​IMG])
     
  8. Joko Tanoyo

    Joko Tanoyo Auditioning

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    I have a dedicated home theater room ready for the system as soon as the house is completed. The room size is 6m X 8m (I think should be right around 15ft X 20ft more or less). I won't have to worry about ambient lighting either because there will not be any windows whatsoever in the room (as I have stated, it will be a "dedicated" room). Since the room is going to be pretty large, I don't think the size of the projector will matter much really.

    Can you please explain further to me what's 1080i or 1080p or 1292? Are those brand models or resolutions or what?

    You said for $5k I will get a CRT projector with unsurpassed pic quality. Can you recommend to me some of these 9" CRT prjectors that are the best value at this price range? This is because that's how much I am just about willing to spend give or take a grand or two.

    Thanks once again!
     
  9. Mark Larson

    Mark Larson Supporting Actor

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    Lots of questions...
    Let me start with the first.
    I have a Sony VPH 1030Q1, with a plain composite connection, projecting a 65" wide image on my wall.
    If you're at $ 5 000, you can find an excellent projector. I got mine for $ 400.
    First thing you need to know is that www.avsforum.com is an excellent resource for these kind of questions.
    1080i (1080 vertical interlaced lines) is HDTV. This is the stuff that was supposed to start being broadcasted on May 1 2002. 1080p is 1080 progressive - double the resolution of 1080i. Not TV can do that, but some projectors can.
    Sony VPH 1292 is a 9" CRT projector that is data capable. This essentially means that it can accept the output from a computer and/or line doubler (480p)/tripler/quadrupler.
    For the money, you should also look at NEC and AmPro models in the 9" range.
    The king of CRT projectors for the common market today is (i think) the Sony G90. Over $ 40k new, and around $ 12k used IIRC.
    Thing is, the projector market is driven by the presentation market, and their needs are different from ours - they want high light output and portability.
    (BTW a 9" projector will probably net you around 1000 lumens, which is enough to singe your retinas if you look at it with normal brightness.)
    I just noticed you're in Indonesia. Are you sure you can get the models i mentioned easily?? Maybe from Japan?? Or if you have a source in the US i must warn you they weigh >150 lbs.
    Any more questions, just shoot.
     
  10. Joko Tanoyo

    Joko Tanoyo Auditioning

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    Contrary to what folks overseas might think, the home theater market here in Indonesia and its region (Singapore, etc) is very much alive and budding. I can get just about any brand mentioned above easily enough.

    Thank you so much for all your help. Now I need to sit down and start budgeting....
     
  11. Drew Eckhardt

    Drew Eckhardt Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a 1292 - great (resolving 960p and 1080p is not a problem) resolution, colors (filtered C-elements), and contrast (liquid coupled lenses). It really has a lot of the film feel. Draw backs are the mandatory hush box (fan noise is about 60dBC 3 feet away), some streaking next to bright objects, and fact that the tubes are not rebuildable.

    Scheimpflug adjustment is also a little whacky (there aren't separate vertical and horizontal screws) although once installed that doesn't change.

    Finally, in operation it doesn't do memories the way other projectors do - you can only specify one image size for each resolution/refresh/sync polarity combination. You can work arround this with a HTPC (with configurable sync polarity) or scaler that does the necessary window/letter boxing.

    The Barco 1209 and NEC 10PG are probably worth looking at - they're quieter, not much more expensive, and VDC can rebuild the tubes for about $600 each (new Sony 09MFX tubes are somewhat north of $2K).

    As a foot-note, a scaler (there are some good deals on the discontinued Quadscans) or HTPC running 960p is effectively required on a 9" CRT (480p gives you a screen where the lines of image are separated by even bigger black lines).
     
  12. Drew Eckhardt

    Drew Eckhardt Stunt Coordinator

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    You probably also want to look at some of the better 8" projectors with electromagnetic focus (Sony G70, NEC XG110LC, XG135LC). They may provide enough resolution on a 16:9 screen (they supposedly resolve 960p and better), will offer the same contrast, and are likely to be about as bright as a 9" projector with filtered C elements (these get you saturated colors at the expense of light output). They'll also be quieter, smaller, and less expensive; and tube availability is better.

    Obviously, for any reasonable budget these projectors must be bought used/rebuilt; preferably from a reputable CRT technician.
     
  13. Drew Eckhardt

    Drew Eckhardt Stunt Coordinator

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    One more thing: peak brightness and the ANSI lumen rating are different for CRTs.

    While a CRT projector can output very bright light on small areas of the screen, it can't do so overall. Consequently, CRTs rated at 1000 (peak) lumens may only put out 225 ANSI.

    For brightness/screen size calculations, you need to use the ANSI lumen rating.
     
  14. Mark Larson

    Mark Larson Supporting Actor

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    One more thing Joko... If this is your first foray into HT, be sure to leave aside some budget for sundry components, like quality video and audio cables, an HTPC if you're up to it, or at least a Quadscan (line quadrupler).
    The prices i'm taking about are all used and/or reconditioned - you have to budget nearer $ 30k to get that level of quality new! Now do you want to go digital?? [​IMG]
     
  15. Joko Tanoyo

    Joko Tanoyo Auditioning

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    I found a used Runco 921 (not sure abt this model number?) for $8k with about 2000hrs left of use and brand new line doubler for $2500. So for about $10k I can get this right now...what do you think!??!
     
  16. Mark Larson

    Mark Larson Supporting Actor

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    Have i recommended AV Science Forum ?? The best help for CRT projectors that i know of. Your PJ sounds like a really good one - 9".
    I'd say research it a bit - you would probably be able to get one for lesser.
    CRT tubes usually last near 10 000 to 12 000 hours, and they cost a fair bit - look around for something with lesser hours. And if you really want something for $ 8k, let me tell you that nothing beats new tubes! [​IMG]
     

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