Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (6 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

Interesting theory Neil. I had never thought of that! I’d still rather think of him as the Corbett version.

There‘s also the Cochrane that Cromwell portrays in Star Trek Enterprise. He‘s closer to the idealized version.

 

[ScottRE]

The Cochrane presented in First Contact can be viewed as a stand-in for Gene Roddenberry.

"You wanna know what my vision is? Dollar signs! Money! I didn't build this ship to usher in a new era for humanity. You think I wanna go to the stars? I don't even like to fly. I take trains. I built this ship so that I could retire to some tropical island filled with naked women. That's Zefram Cochrane. That's his vision. This other guy you keep talking about. This historical figure. I never met him. I can't imagine I ever will."

Yup, I totally agree. There's this habit that fans want to elevate Roddenberry to some visionary who wanted to change the world, but really he was a TV producer who needed a hit show. I grant that he wanted to be more than, say, Irwin Allen, but the "vision" that people keep talking about didn't bloom until the 70's, well after he realized nobody was buying his sexed up, warmed over Star Trek rehashes and weird pilot movies.

I give him a ton of credit for creating the series, but the success of the show over the decades can be attributed to Bob Justman, Dorothy Fontana, Gene Coon and John Lucas just as much.

 

[Nelson Au]

Over the last 30 or more years, like many of you, I’ve learned that Gene Roddenberry was no angel. He’s as flawed a human as anyone else. Not a paragon of virtue as Eve said. He was definitely one of the bad boys, a product of his generation.

And yes, it was a whole team of people who helped flesh out Star Trek TOS to make it what it was. I’ve never fully elevated him as a god.

I really don‘t buy that Ron Moore and Brannon Braga had in mind to envision Cochrane was Roddenberry. It’s an interesting theory for sure. And all the evidence is there. From seeing Moore‘s work on Galactica, I really think he wanted to envision a guy who is not what you expected. He was more interested in the money as you’ve said and the rewards from his invention. And then enjoying it with debauchery. Moore did not want to make him a very nice guy. The Zefram Cochrane we see in Metamorphosis didn’t have any backstory. Just the guy who invented warp drive, then had gotten all the accolades and decided to go out and die in space. He was a sort of broken man when we see him. So I can imagine Ron Moore wanting to fill in that back story as a guy with all those flaws. But he wasn’t the guy I’ve had in my imagination. I thought he was a decent guy who was so happy to see other people after 150 years.

But we can agree to disagree.

 

[ScottRE]

It may have been subconscious or just a massive coincidence, but it sure fits.

There's also totally room for Cochrane to grow from the point we see him in First Contact to the man we see 150+ years later. He was already changing when we saw him again in "Broken Bow." Nothing we see in either contradicts the other (although we have to do some gymnastics to justify the "from Alpha Centauri" thing in "Metamorphosis").

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

I really don‘t buy that Ron Moore and Brannon Braga had in mind to envision Cochrane was Roddenberry. It’s an interesting theory for sure. And all the evidence is there.

"And you people, you're all astronauts, on some kind of star trek?"

He comes up with the title of the show.

 

[ScottRE]

"And you people, you're all astronauts, on some kind of star trek?"

He comes up with the title of the show.

That's that USO show, right?

 

[Nelson Au]

Ha, ha! You’ve got a good point there Neil! When I first saw First Contact and heard that line, my thought was and still is just some fan service winking and an inside joke. I never loved that or hated it.

 

[Bryan^H]

Here are some images of the color timing on the original series: the top images represent the original remaster that was released on DVD, the bottom represent what the BD looks like. Although when comparing the DVD sets to the BD it is even a wider divide beteen the two.

Spoiler

 

[John*Wells]

So, I am watching Voyager. When Paris was freed from prison to help find the Maquis and they all end up on Voyager, Janeway enters a field commission of Lieutenant for him. He Loses it in "Thirty Days" and later regains it. However, it seems to me that Harry Kim should have at least been promoted to Lieutenant at some point. I remember in TNG, Data Explains that you begin as an Ensign and after 3 years you can be promoted to Lieutenant. Even though Kim got a reprimand for his actions in "The Disease", I think something got missed there

 

[Jason_V]

So, I am watching Voyager. When Paris was freed from prison to help find the Maquis and they all end up on Voyager, Janeway enters a field commission of Lieutenant for him. He Loses it in "Thirty Days" and later regains it. However, it seems to me that Harry Kim should have at least been promoted to Lieutenant at some point. I remember in TNG, Data Explains that you begin as an Ensign and after 3 years you can be promoted to Lieutenant. Even though Kim got a reprimand for his actions in "The Disease", I think something got missed there

Janeway created a new rank called "Eternal Ensign."

I'm kidding, obviously. It is one of the weird things about Voyager, when you think about it. All the other shows had everyone getting a promotion at some point, either shown on screen or it happened between what we see on screen (Kirk to Admiral, Chakotay to Captain, Kira to Colonel, etc.).

 

[ScottRE]

Harry is lucky he even had a job from the 4th season on. According to Garrett Wang, his character was on the chopping block but he got some "Sexiest Man Alive" cover so Kes got the axe instead. Since Voyager was all about the PR, they weren't about to lose a character who suddenly found the spotlight.

Then 7 of 9 arrived and stole everyone's thunder.

 

[John*Wells]

Harry is lucky he even had a job from the 4th season on. According to Garrett Wang, his character was on the chopping block but he got some "Sexiest Man Alive" cover so Kes got the axe instead. Since Voyager was all about the PR, they weren't about to lose a character who suddenly found the spotlight.

Then 7 of 9 arrived and stole everyone's thunder.

Ive read that Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan didn’t get along at all. Is that accurate? I had read also that Kes was cut because Jennifer Lien had “Personal issues” and the brass got fed up with her.

 

[Nelson Au]

Guys, more 6 degrees of Star Trek. I watched another Odd Couple episode that guest starred Stanley Adams, AKA Cyrano Jones, Tribble dealer. He played Sure Shot Wilson, a 4 pack a day smoker who was a pool shark playing a game against Oscar. It’s a great sequence! I was surprised to read that 4 years later in 1977, Adams died at 62.

About Garrett Wang, he was on People Magazine as one of the most beautiful people at that time. There is that episode where Voyager is duplicated while one was slightly out of phase with the other and Kim did die in that episode.

From what I understood from Mulgrew herself was that she resented Jeri Ryan being added to the cast. Understandably, she felt that a woman doesn’t have to use sex appeal to show she is a capable leader and never wanted Janeway to be used that way. So with Ryan as a beautiful woman brought in to boost ratings, Mulgrew resented that and took it out on Ryan. I believe Mulgrew later worked out her difference with Ryan, but it made it difficult for Ryan to work with Mulgrew.

Not sure what the deal with Jennifer Lein was, she was highly liked by the cast and her acting was well regarded. She seemed to go off the rails after the show.

 

[John*Wells]

About Garrett Wang, he was on People Magazine as one of the most beautiful people at that time. There is that episode where Voyager is duplicated while one was slightly out of phase with the other and Kim did die in that episode

It would have been odd IMO to lose Harry Kim. Janeway saw him as more of a son I think. She even says as much in “the Disease”

 

[Blimpoy06]

Voyager had so much unfulfilled potential. I never understood the point of setting up the Maquis characters in the pilot and then making them all basically Starfleet Officers with heavy responsibilities on the ship as soon as the major event that brought them to the Delta Quadrant was over. Regular Starfleet officers like Harry Kim and Tom Paris should have been promoted and given Department Head status over rouge civillians. The writing went straight into safe, familiar TNG mode almost immediately.

None of the human characters in Voyager were ever really permitted to grow. Hell, the holographic doctor had the strongest development as the show went on. Kes and her short life span and evolving powers should have been utilized more. Seven just became the Spock/Data surrogate questing to understand humanity. Which is what the doctor was doing up until Seven arrived. So he got put on the back burner.

Harry Kim had two purposes on Voyager. Act as the wing man to all of Tom Paris hologram adventures, and spout exposition dialogue on the bridge. "It appears to be some sort of....Captain". Star Trek writers are always bragging about creating relatable junior officers, but no one wants to write for them. Look how fast Geordi and Worf became Department Heads on TNG. And the race to make Michael Burnham the Captain on Discovery. Charaters are only really interesting when they are in a roll where they have to make decisions. I was surprised that Harry was never given any added responsibilities on the show.

 

[Osato]

New film review of the voyage home. Im
Listening to it now:

 

[ScottRE]

It would have been odd IMO to lose Harry Kim. Janeway saw him as more of a son I think. She even says as much in “the Disease”

But with Seven brought in, she didn't need a son anymore. The show shifted focus to their relationship at the sacrifice of some of the others.

Unfortunately, ship based Star Trek didn't work well in that era as an ensemble show. Over time the focus always went to the top two or three. Deep space nine was an exception because they had so many characters and the setting was a stationary place.

Another problem is you had to like every character, otherwise, if one of the side characters got their own episode, and you weren't crazy about them, invariably you were bored. Or at least less invested. Troi episodes, Quark shows or Captain Proton episodes got me reaching for my remote faster than Hee Haw.

 

[Robert Saccone]

I have both the Blu ray and the dvd (with the Tricorder cases). Are the dvd versions worth holding onto? Is there content on them that isn’t on the Blu rays?

 

[ScottRE]

Tricorder cases? You mean the hard plastic yellow, blue and red season sets from 2004? If you mean bonus features, no. You're not missing anything. If you mean other small things like the first season "electric violin theme" and the NBC broadcast opening credits for "The Man Trap" and "Charlie X" as well as the correct 3rd season Paramount logos, then keep the DVDs if that stuff has meaning for you.

Each release has tweaks and changes from the previous and the original prints, so really, if you're just in it for the episodes and the bonus features, the blu rays should be more than enough for ya.

 

[John*Wells]

I have the hard shell cases from 2004 and the Blu rays. I’ll keeping them both in case one gives out.