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Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (1 Viewer)

Harry-N

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OK, thanks to a kind soul in this thread, I've been able to view the "awful music" version of "City On The Edge Of Forever". I can assure all of you that I've never heard that replacement music before, and I DID own a transporter version of the VHS tape of the episode, and it DID contain the "Goodnight Sweetheart" music just the way I always remembered it. It was a standard US issue, not from the UK or anywhere else, and I'm sure I got it within my sphere of influence of the Philadelphia suburbs, likely with the other nine released that day. In other words, it may have been duplicated before they got word to substitute the music, or it was some sort of mishap.

I wish I'd kept it just for verification.

Regarding the replacement music, it affects three different sections of the episode. The old-timey song plays as Kirk and Edith walk past the radio store; it's incorporated into the orchestral score as she trips down the stairs in the apartment building; and once more as Kirk holds McCoy from attempting to rescue her.

The song itself wasn't so bad. It was a decent choice to use as a substitute, having the same pinched sonics as "Goodnight Sweetheart's" vocal. The orchestral part that they came up with is truly awful. The bit on the stairs is nearly comical. The section as the story heads back to the Guardian's planet is at least in the correct key and has a similar throbbing chord.

Thanks again for allowing me to hear what thousands of Star Trek fans have been bitching about for all these years.
 

Jack P

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The Lasers and the VHS tapes were made from the 35mm masters - BUT - each release had something a little different. Columbia House had a couple of cuts in their episodes. The Lasers had different cuts. The Lasers left the network bumper (without sound) after the opening credits of Mirror Mirror but no other VHS version did. The 1968 Rising Circle Paramount logo was at the end of The Omega Glory on Columbia House but not the Paramount single episode VHS or the lasers. It's all so weird.
The original VHS release of "All Our Yesterdays" had two cuts in the episode. First when Mr. Atoz answers Kirk's question, "What about recent history?" with "I'm sorry, there wasn't much demand for it." or words to that effect. And when Spock says to Zarabeth that his home is a planet thousands of light years away, it cuts to Zarabeth losing control and thinking she's going mad instead of her initial reaction of how she's always read about such stories.
 

ScottRE

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I have to check my copy, but I'm pretty sure the Columbia House version of the episode didn't have those cuts. That was one of the episodes I was thinking of that was different depending on the release. Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was missing a lot of the shuttlecraft docking in the beginning as well.
 

ScottRE

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OK, thanks to a kind soul in this thread, I've been able to view the "awful music" version of "City On The Edge Of Forever". I can assure all of you that I've never heard that replacement music before, and I DID own a transporter version of the VHS tape of the episode, and it DID contain the "Goodnight Sweetheart" music just the way I always remembered it. It was a standard US issue, not from the UK or anywhere else, and I'm sure I got it within my sphere of influence of the Philadelphia suburbs, likely with the other nine released that day. In other words, it may have been duplicated before they got word to substitute the music, or it was some sort of mishap.

I wish I'd kept it just for verification.

Regarding the replacement music, it affects three different sections of the episode. The old-timey song plays as Kirk and Edith walk past the radio store; it's incorporated into the orchestral score as she trips down the stairs in the apartment building; and once more as Kirk holds McCoy from attempting to rescue her.

The song itself wasn't so bad. It was a decent choice to use as a substitute, having the same pinched sonics as "Goodnight Sweetheart's" vocal. The orchestral part that they came up with is truly awful. The bit on the stairs is nearly comical. The section as the story heads back to the Guardian's planet is at least in the correct key and has a similar throbbing chord.

Thanks again for allowing me to hear what thousands of Star Trek fans have been bitching about for all these years.
Welcome to the misery pit! At least you didn't have to live with it for over 15 years! :D
 

Nelson Au

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If you’ll allow me to paraphrase a Scotty from The Empath, Not to dispute your computer, Harry…;)

I kept The City on the Edge of Forever and The Cage VHs tapes in my collection after selling off the other 70 odd tapes. Here’s a pic of the covers and it does say “some music was replaced”. In my memory, I recall hearing the replacement music.

Fred Steiner did a really cool thing and based the melody of the score on that song, so it was a shame so much of the score was replaced.

702B7816-4E17-455B-A684-37AB452A5235.jpeg 0D71612B-3581-4C67-90A2-66DF5EB18E28.jpeg

This makes me want to listen to the LaLaLand complete score of City on the Edge of Forever now.
 

Harry-N

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Now that I see that picture, I DO believe that my copy also had that legend about replacement music. It's why I struggled to actually FIND anything odd, but I never did.

Just looking through my remaining VHS tapes, I have only the one episode that Scotty signed for me. It's "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", which was ironic because I don't think James Doohan was in that episode. We drove down to the Willow Grove, PA Blockbuster store to meet Mr. Doohan and get the tape signed.
 

ScottRE

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Now that I see that picture, I DO believe that my copy also had that legend about replacement music. It's why I struggled to actually FIND anything odd, but I never did.

Just looking through my remaining VHS tapes, I have only the one episode that Scotty signed for me. It's "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", which was ironic because I don't think James Doohan was in that episode. We drove down to the Willow Grove, PA Blockbuster store to meet Mr. Doohan and get the tape signed.
Oh sure he's all over that one. That clip of Scotty hanging onto the grating in the Engine Room was cribbed for The Doomsday Machine.

"Mr. Scott is still with us."
 

Jack P

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I also recall that the original DVD release of "The Doomsday Machine" was missing a piece of underscore after Kirk says, "I'm going to ram this thing right down it's throat" and Spock reacts with, "Jim, you'll be killed just like Decker." They used a library cue re-recorded from the "Naked Time" for that scene.
 

ScottRE

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Yup, and The Tholian Web was missing the end of Uhura's release from sickbay.

There were music substitutions in The Menagerie Part 2 that were ported over to the blu ray release, but the blu ray has the mono sound mix option which contains the correct music. So weird.
 

Harry-N

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Oh sure he's all over that one. That clip of Scotty hanging onto the grating in the Engine Room was cribbed for The Doomsday Machine.

"Mr. Scott is still with us."
Right you are. For some reason, I remembered that the episode he signed for me wasn't one he was in. I guess I was wrong about that - he surely is in that episode now that I think of it properly.
 

Nelson Au

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I re-watched The Tholian Web last night. Partly because last week’s Strange New Worlds showed the new environmental suits that bore resemblance to the suits they wear when Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Chekov beam over to the Defiant.

I also have memories as a kid when I audio taped this episode and was listening to it many times. It’s not a favorite episode, but I enjoyed it for the Spock and McCoy relationship. And it has that great scene where Spock and McCoy watch Kirk’s taped message. I always liked the use of the tracked score in this episode too.

I still have some trouble with the science as I felt the writers didn’t clearly explain what happens. Just as the Tholian web is about to close, the Enterprise escapes. As the web is nearly closed, Spock orders full power, full power of what? Now that I think about it. I think I get it. The Enterprise was about to go into interphase. They needed to keep the ship from moving, once in interphase, they appeared to move and then re-phased back into normal space but away from Tholian space. I guess I get it now. After all these years! :biggrin:
 

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Just started a great podcast on Star Trek insurrection! Great discussion! They reference Michael Piller’s book quite a bit too!

 

KPmusmag

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I re-watched The Tholian Web last night. Partly because last week’s Strange New Worlds showed the new environmental suits that bore resemblance to the suits they wear when Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Chekov beam over to the Defiant.

I also have memories as a kid when I audio taped this episode and was listening to it many times. It’s not a favorite episode, but I enjoyed it for the Spock and McCoy relationship. And it has that great scene where Spock and McCoy watch Kirk’s taped message. I always liked the use of the tracked score in this episode too.

I still have some trouble with the science as I felt the writers didn’t clearly explain what happens. Just as the Tholian web is about to close, the Enterprise escapes. As the web is nearly closed, Spock orders full power, full power of what? Now that I think about it. I think I get it. The Enterprise was about to go into interphase. They needed to keep the ship from moving, once in interphase, they appeared to move and then re-phased back into normal space but away from Tholian space. I guess I get it now. After all these years! :biggrin:

The Tholian Web has always been a favorite of mine because I can remember watching it in primetime with my parents back in '68 or '69. I was 6 years old and it really impacted me. The scene in Uhura's quarters scared the heck out of me and haunted my dreams for a good while. (The green faces in the viewer in The Mark of Gideon did the same.) Star Trek was incredibly real to me as a kid, not just because kids believe what they see, but because my parents took it seriously and discussed the science and philosophy of it. My Dad never watched episodic TV, just news and sports, with the single exception of Star Trek, so that heightened its importance in my mind as well. Another memory just came to me - my Mother, a very strong, accomplished woman - would sometimes get very frustrated when a female member of the crew would scream and cower and she would mutter, "You're a professional for heaven's sake, act like it!" Watching it now, I do cringe a bit in those moments myself.

So I find myself wondering if my affection for season 3 comes from the nostalgia of it being a part of my life before I ever saw S1 and S2 in syndication.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I remember season 3 episodes being difficult to come by when I was first getting into a show as a kid - the local video store had the individual VHS tapes for Episodes 1-50 and that was as far as they got. And for whatever reason, at that time, WPIX was playing the shows in weird orders. It was usually random mixes of season 1 and 2 episodes. Sometimes they’d move it to a new time slot and make a big deal of saying they were going to start at the beginning and show them in order, and then they’d wind up moving it around and restarting long before getting to season 3. I knew what all the episodes were about thanks to the James Blish adaptations but some of them were like legendary lost adventures from my young perspective.

I think I was visiting my grandmother and her local video store had Tholian Web. I convinced her to rent it for me and I very clearly remember sitting on my grandfather’s chair in front of the TV there watching it. That TV was so old that the remote was wired. Good times.

It’s amazing how there are a handful of episodes where decades later I can still tell you exactly how I first saw them.
 

ScottRE

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I re-watched The Tholian Web last night. Partly because last week’s Strange New Worlds showed the new environmental suits that bore resemblance to the suits they wear when Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Chekov beam over to the Defiant.

I also have memories as a kid when I audio taped this episode and was listening to it many times. It’s not a favorite episode, but I enjoyed it for the Spock and McCoy relationship. And it has that great scene where Spock and McCoy watch Kirk’s taped message. I always liked the use of the tracked score in this episode too.

I still have some trouble with the science as I felt the writers didn’t clearly explain what happens. Just as the Tholian web is about to close, the Enterprise escapes. As the web is nearly closed, Spock orders full power, full power of what? Now that I think about it. I think I get it. The Enterprise was about to go into interphase. They needed to keep the ship from moving, once in interphase, they appeared to move and then re-phased back into normal space but away from Tholian space. I guess I get it now. After all these years! :biggrin:
The Tholian attacked fused the power supply converters and Scotty was making repairs throughout the episode. He had about "76%" power built up by the time the web was bring completed. As they began to slip into interspace, they made visual contact with Kirk, locked onto him with the transporter and applied maximum available power at once which blew them through the hole in space outside the web.

That's my version and it was always exciting.
 

Osato

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I remember season 3 episodes being difficult to come by when I was first getting into a show as a kid - the local video store had the individual VHS tapes for Episodes 1-50 and that was as far as they got. And for whatever reason, at that time, WPIX was playing the shows in weird orders. It was usually random mixes of season 1 and 2 episodes. Sometimes they’d move it to a new time slot and make a big deal of saying they were going to start at the beginning and show them in order, and then they’d wind up moving it around and restarting long before getting to season 3. I knew what all the episodes were about thanks to the James Blish adaptations but some of them were like legendary lost adventures from my young perspective.

I think I was visiting my grandmother and her local video store had Tholian Web. I convinced her to rent it for me and I very clearly remember sitting on my grandfather’s chair in front of the TV there watching it. That TV was so old that the remote was wired. Good times.

It’s amazing how there are a handful of episodes where decades later I can still tell you exactly how I first saw them.

I recall a local video store that all of them on vhs for rent. It was crazy.

I eventually had some that I bought and others dubbed off the local tv station. Took me a while to get them all.

I have the Blu-ray sets but I don’t think any of the episodes now on vhs. Just TMP home edition.

I actually was going to watch doomsday machine today (while doing chores upstairs) and I had to stop myself realizing it wasn’t on prime anymore. I’ll watch the episode on disc downstairs on the main tv later though.

I was on the fence on the iTunes sale for the series for $30.
 

ScottRE

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I remember season 3 episodes being difficult to come by when I was first getting into a show as a kid - the local video store had the individual VHS tapes for Episodes 1-50 and that was as far as they got. And for whatever reason, at that time, WPIX was playing the shows in weird orders. It was usually random mixes of season 1 and 2 episodes. Sometimes they’d move it to a new time slot and make a big deal of saying they were going to start at the beginning and show them in order, and then they’d wind up moving it around and restarting long before getting to season 3. I knew what all the episodes were about thanks to the James Blish adaptations but some of them were like legendary lost adventures from my young perspective.

I think I was visiting my grandmother and her local video store had Tholian Web. I convinced her to rent it for me and I very clearly remember sitting on my grandfather’s chair in front of the TV there watching it. That TV was so old that the remote was wired. Good times.

It’s amazing how there are a handful of episodes where decades later I can still tell you exactly how I first saw them.
You're the first person I've heard who also remembers WPIX running the series in a random order. Everyone else claims they would broadcast them in production order and some 1970's TV Guides bear that out, but Star Trek was on WPIX from 1969 onward, so they had lots of chances to screw with the order. I have vague memories of never know what episode would be next.

As for the VHS tapes, I used to find them everywhere. From local mom and pop video stores to Waldenbooks locations. I did grab two 3rd season episodes at the mom and pop near the store where I worked. I didn't care what episode it was, it was Star Trek and it was (for the most part) uncut. And cheap!

I remember my wired remote SHARP VCR! Sometimes, I wish they still had that tether. Especially when my batteries go out or my wife walks between the remote and the TV. :D
 

Josh Steinberg

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You're the first person I've heard who also remembers WPIX running the series in a random order. Everyone else claims they would broadcast them in production order and some 1970's TV Guides bear that out, but Star Trek was on WPIX from 1969 onward, so they had lots of chances to screw with the order. I have vague memories of never know what episode would be next.

My primary watching years would have been around 1991-1996ish, so it’s entirely possible that it ran in perfect production order for decades until I came along. I don’t even recall it airing consistently during that period. I first remember seeing it on TV there when they ran a small ad campaign (at least on the channel itself if not in print) about how it was coming back. I tuned in at the date/time advertised and the first episode played was The Apple. At one point a couple years after that they moved it to late on Saturday nights with two episodes, and those did start in production order (I was taping them) but they moved it out of that time slot before they finished the entire run. I don’t remember when it landed after that but I was just never able to reliably access it in a way that I could’ve taped all the shows, which frustrated me as a kid to no end.
 

Harry-N

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Back in the early 70s, STAR TREK in syndication was a big deal. Stations that aired it, routinely scheduled in the 6p-8p dinnertime hours and many watched it before, after, or during their evening meal. It felt a bit odd to me that, for example my parents, who hadn't cared a whit about STAR TREK during its NBC run, were now accepting of the show in that early evening run.

In Philly, the series was scooped up by independent Channel 48, WKBS, a Kaiser station, and they treated the show with a good deal of respect. After a run or two, they got the idea to showcase the series by airing them in the original network running order, and with the limited commercial inventory so they wouldn't be edited. That was pretty much unheard of. I recall attending a couple of STAR TREK conventions up in New York, where the NY fans constantly criticized WPIX for butchering the series with their editing. Those of us from Philly felt lucky.

WKBSStarTrek.jpg
 

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