Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films)

Museum Pieces

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Too bad you couldn’t put a short clip on YouTube to show the problem. That might help me understand.
Here are the clips you requested. This is an example of the three types of jarring transitions I am talking about: the first is a clean dropout, the second a popping one, the third between two-live action scenes. The jarring transitions occur within the video at 8 seconds, 19 seconds, and 28 seconds.

 

Nelson Au

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Thanks for posting those clips! They look so clean. I see now what you’re experiencing. I can’t believe it because I’ve never seen or heard those examples happening before on the Blu Rays. I used to use a Sony blu ray player from about 2008 and I don’t recall ever seeing or hearing those audio drop outs and pops. And certainly not when playing the discs on the Oppo. Those are unacceptable. A blind man could see that!

What about when you play with original effects, is there the same drop outs and pops?

It would be interesting if you knew someone with another player you’ve never tried before to test the discs on.
 

Museum Pieces

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What about when you play with original effects, is there the same drop outs and pops?

It would be interesting if you knew someone with another player you’ve never tried before to test the discs on.
Thank you for acknowledging I am not making a mountain out of a mole hill. I have updated and tried the discs (from the 2009 set and the 50th anniversary set) on all three of my players with similar results. I have tried multiple ripping software and hardware. I have watched friends' discs that they say have no problems, yet when I watch at their house and point them out, they only shrug. I have tried two sets of discs on multiple wayward players with the same results.

The gaps are there whether I watch TOS or TOS-R. I have never seen TOS in any form in HD without multiple jarring transitions per every episode (that is, until I started correcting episodes myself).

Here is another video clip showing how my ripping software reacted to THE DEVIL IN THE DARK, followed by my attempt at upscaling 480 to replace the section (which starts 19 seconds into the clip). It's as seamless as my capabilities can make it, so it appears this is what I will have to live with.

 

ScottRE

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As quick as they are, these would drive me nuts as well. However on both my PlayStation 3 and my other standalone Sony blu ray player, I’ve never run into these kinds of transition jumps. it’s strange you see that in every brand of player you have.

I did save all of the DVDs and Laserdisc episodes to mkv files which I watch most. I don’t haul out the blu rays all that often.
 
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The Obsolete Man

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More Enterprise.

The Vulcan arc was good. Shows us how they went from the assholes on Enterprise to the Vulcans we knew from every other show. You have to figure they knew this was the final season since they went and killed off Admiral Forrest.

The Augment arc... ugh, another Soong (yeah, NuTrek turned me off of the Soong line, too). Also, the scenes of the Augments together... well, they were hammier than William Shatner carrying a honey glazed spiral cut under each arm. Humanity didn't outlaw Augments because they were scary, they outlawed them because they overacted! Otherwise, it was an alright arc, and (though I haven't watched them yet) did eventually lead to explaining the Smooth vs. Crunchy Klingon question.
 
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Nelson Au

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Skylar, this is way over my pay grade and understanding. I can’t figure out the problem you’re experiencing. I even asked a friend if he’s seeing the same pauses at the same places you listed. He didn’t see them and he’s using an older Sony player. It’s interesting that when I made MKV files and play them back, it’s fine. Did you do that? Make MKV files and use Plex? As I said, your efforts with ripping software and Adobe Premiere are well past my pay grade.

At least you have a solution you’re working on. And you’re getting some fun out of it.
 

Museum Pieces

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Did you do that? Make MKV files and use Plex? As I said, your efforts with ripping software and Adobe Premiere are well past my pay grade.
Yes I rip to MKV and use Plex. I believe if I kept buying BD players I'd eventually get lucky, but they're starting to stack up, and since I have everything converted to MKV, I feel like I've kinda made my bed beyond disc-based viewing. I haven't gone back and looked but when I first started posting here, someone on this thread brought up the transitions, so I know there's at least someone around here who's seen them too. I pray they haven't been as unlucky as I have.

One of the things that is motivating me on this project is never having to deal with these clunky discs again. The content is magnificient. The job done by CBS Digital is probably second only to the job done on TNG-R. I simply want to be able to enjoy the passion and love put into these beautiful transfers and thoughtful effects without having to suffer these intolerable discs anymore.

The cool thing is, I'm finding out what my true top ten TOS episodes are. It's one thing to make a casual list, but when it comes down to which ten I'm willing to put in real hours on, to trouble shoot and find work-arounds for, the choices were easy. So far I've done THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE, THE CORBOMITE MANEUVER, JOURNEY TO BABEL, CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER, THE DEVIL IN THE DARK, and am just starting on AMOK TIME. After that BALANCE OF TERROR, ARENA, THE NAKED TIME and THE IMMUNITY SYNDROME round out my first batch of ten. If I encounter another problem like DEVIL IN THE DARK, I've proven I can fix it and live with the results.

I'm enjoying the project. I feel like the episodes I'm ending up with are not, even subliminally, piecemeal. They have structural integrity just like the VHS and DVDs I loved before them.
 

Harry-N

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Those examples are indeed annoying, and are great examples of what you're experiencing. Armed with that information, I checked my own Blu-ray of both Babel and Devil, and mine play as smooth as silk. No audio dropouts, no popping sounds - all smooth - in both TOS and TOS-R. Your "Devil" blip looks like a disc error, perhaps caused by dirt, fingerprints, or just a bad disc.

This time I checked using a different Sony Blu-ray player than the one I used last time. This one's a Sony BDPS-5500.

I will say that the transition from the Andorian to the Enterprise shot in space was originally rather close cut, but that was that way originally. The replacement CGI is fine, but the music is a little more up-cut. Still, it was a smooth transition here in both versions - no blips.

I suppose that your computerized fixes are doing the trick for you, and wish you well with your project. Just know that with the evidence here, it only appears to be happening to some with certain players not handling the disc-authoring well. Lesson learned: all disc players are not created equal.
 
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Museum Pieces

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Your "Devil" blip looks like a disc error, perhaps caused by dirt, fingerprints, or just a bad disc.
That's what I originally thought but it renders the same on a second disc I bought and again the same on a third borrowed disc. Of course it doesn't play that way on any of the discs; the glitch is a reaction to the disc authoring by my ripping system. So the trade off for me was putting up with a few seconds of upscaled 480 or watching that damned gap on the disc. I chose ripping and upscaled 480.

I may start a drinking game for repairing gaps in these episodes. Every time I run across a gap, I may take a drink of rum and Coke. There were only two gaps in AMOK TIME, and not where I thought they would be. One was before the dolled up shot of young T'Pring on the monitor. The other was after the medical readout over the bed in sickbay (because the readout had been redone).

I have a feeling there will be more than two gaps in THE IMMUNITY SYNDROME. I may be drunk by the time I am finished with that one.:cheers:
 

Museum Pieces

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When it comes to ripping and the software to do it, all bets are off. These discs were never guaranteed to be "rip-able".
In the 7000+ discs I ripped (DVDs, BDs, UHDs) from my library to hard drives, these TOS-R discs are the only ones that have presented problems, IMO because the authoring on these discs is too complex for many machines--and ripping systems--to handle. I think the proof is in the pudding or, in this case, the gaps.

Edit: And BTW, the entire reason I started the ripping project was these abominable discs.
 
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Nelson Au

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Hey guys, Happy Star Trek anniversary, September 8th, 1966 for the first airing of Star Trek.

I was surprised to see an email from CBS All Access celebrating the day with interviews with the cast of each series streaming free today! If you didn’t get the email, It starts at noon Pacific time. I was surprised that the Star Trek TOS Panel only has George Takei and Rod Roddenberry while the other series has more cast members scheduled.
 
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The Obsolete Man

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Hey guys, Happy Star Trek anniversary, September 8th, 1966 for the first airing of Star Trek.

I was surprised to see an email from CBS All Access celebrating the day with interviews with the cast of each series streaming free today! If you didn’t get the email, It starts at noon Pacific time. I was surprised that the Star Trek TOS Panel only has George Takei and Rod Roddenberry while the other series has more cast members scheduled.
There's really not that many TOS castmembers left. Takei, Shatner, and Walter Koenig are pretty much it. Nimoy, Kelley, and Doohan are dead, and Nichelle Nichols is said to be in no shape to do stuff like this. So, they have a full third of the remaining active castmembers there.
 
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Nelson Au

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Robert, yes, William Shatner, George Takei, Nichelle Nichols and Walter Koenig of the main cast still with us today. Shatner is probably busy as he always is. And yes, Nichelle is not at her top top shape.
 

KPmusmag

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Those promos are amazing to see. They would have been great supplements on the blu-rays.

They also remind me how terrible the show looked in syndication when I was a kid - faded color, tons of dust and scratches. I think in those days they were showing them on actual film, maybe 16mm, I don't know. My Dad, having been a projectionist in the late 1950s, could hardly stand it. IIRC that was on channel 13 in L.A.

Then the show went off for a while (oh no!), but then returned on channel 5 looking glorious. That was about 1984 I believe. I remember scrounging money to buy enough VHS tapes to record them all at SP speed (2 per tape). Ugh. It was a chore to keep up, but I was glad I did. I was going to buy the laserdiscs but the first one I bought was "City on the Edge of Forever" and I was so annoyed by the music replacement I didn't buy any more of them.
 
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BobO'Link

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Thats the most likely explanation. The major markets would have had the access and budget to afford 35mm prints but most local stations would have been screening 16mm.
Having worked in a small market TV station I can say with certainty that's the case. We had a 16mm projector (one - it was quite "fun" changing shows at the hour/half-hour during a commercial break - especially if you were running Master Control by yourself) and *everything* came in that way - until 3/4" U-Matic took over. Those films would come in in horrible shape and there was nothing you could do but air them and send them on to the next station.
 

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