Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (2 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

Hey Sam, for sure the writing staff during the 7th season was spread out with the finale and Generations writing assignments on top of the regular season stories.

I’ve watched several episodes into the 7th season now that I have not seen since they originally aired, so it’s almost like watching brand new Star Trek TNG.

Phantasm was not what I recalled, I thought it was better then I recalled, though not top tier Star Trek. I think I saw it at least one other time as I remember how Data started to figure out the problem.

Dark Page I’d seen at least twice. I skipped watching it too often as it was a heavy episode. On this viewing I thought it was very well done and acted and it was very emotional. It showed Majel Barrett in a new light as an actress and Mrs Troi had another side to her.

Attached I’d seen probably twice and a long time ago. I knew the basic story but I’d forgotten the ending. The whole mission was a waste of time for the Enterprise and caused Picard and Beverly to endure quite an ordeal. The idea of Picard and Beverly being romantic was a story thread they dropped very fast in the first season. They only maintained a friendship and had breakfast together. It was an overdue aspect to explore their relationship and they didn’t do anything more with it the rest of the season until All Good things, as far as I can recall.

Force of Nature I remembered very well the idea when I originally saw it. I’d not seen it in a long time too, so again it was like new. It was never clear if it was only that section of space that was being damaged by warp drive or all space. In later episodes they did touch on the idea of exceeding Warp 6 for special reasons. it was a good try at doing an ecology story.

Inheritance was an episode I’d confused with an earlier episode, Silicon Avatar for some reason as I was thinking the woman, Dr. Marr was the same woman as Mrs Soong. It’s been that long since I’d seen Silicon Avatar. I liked Inheritance more as it was a more positive episode. We learned more about Data’s past. And it had a familiar Twilight Zone twist.

Parallels is an episode I’d seen several times as I liked this one. Despite my dislike of parallel universes, this was done well and it was fun. The Riker from the Borg war universe scene is a memorable one. It was on this viewing that it occurred to me that the emotional tug they were going for with Deanna going through her roller coaster ride of learning that ”our prime” Worf didn’t know he was married to her still didn’t work for me. The thing I realized is they should have brought K’Ehleyr back. Then it would have been a much stronger emotional hit to Worf. Instead, they created the romance which I never liked, I was in the camp that Riker and Deanna were once romantic and they should get back together. ( I did read the Memory Alpha entry on this and how the Writers joked they wanted to pair Worf and Deanna. Of course we know that they realized the fans didn’t like this idea and brought Riker and Deanna back together. Other then that, this is a fun episode.

The Pegasus is another favorite of mine. I guess they wanted to sully Riker’s past a little. But I hadn’t seen it in a while, so it was good to see it to remind me the reasons why Riker defended Captain Pressman during the mutiny on the Pegasus. I liked the way they resolved it and the call back to The Next Phase of the cloaking device that allows the ship to pass through matter. I would have preferred to see Tomalak as the Romulan Commander of the warbird.

Homeward was not an episode I liked that much. I’d forgotten Penny Johnson was in this episode. She did a lot of guest roles during this period. I felt like Picard was very tolerant to allow Worf’s brothers plan to go ahead. And I was surprised Picard was going to allow Vorin to decide if he wanted to stay on the Enterprise. But I guess he didn’t have much of a choice.

Sub Rosa I’d only seen once and I never watched it again. It wasn’t working for me. On this viewing, I was really appreciating the set designs and how great the lighting was. The production value was great on this episode. I paid attention to the story and it made sense to me this time around. In a way, it was like Wolf in the Fold. Except the being didn’t feed on fear. This wasn’t a very Star Trekian episode.

I enjoyed Lower Decks, as I mentioned earlier, I’m glad it ended the way it did.

i liked Thine Own Self, though I haven’t seen it in a long time, I did see it a few times. I liked the how Data with amnesia was still able to think of the problem of the radiation poisoning and was able to create a cure. And the idea of Frankenstein and the villagers going after Data like the monster with pitchforks didn’t occur to me until I read the Memory Alpha entry. It certainly was there. I thought it felt a little like The Ensigns of Command as Data had to solve a problem himself.

Masks. Oh dear, what a way out episode. I never watched it more then once or twice back in the day. I did give it a fair viewing and my attention and I could see it was an interesting premise. I didn’t like that the archive could literally transform the Enterprise bit by bit. But what I got out of it was it was like The Inner Light for Data.

Eye of the Beholder is another episode i only viewed once or twice. So I had forgotten how Worf tried to take the romance further with Deanna. They managed to almost make Worf and Deanna’s get together feel like an illusion, but it really did happen. The memorable thing about this episode is I remembered the section of the ship in the engine nacelle and the platform where the suicide occurred. And the finding the bones. It seemed really unlikely this Murder could have happened! In Starfleet?

 

[Nelson Au]

Continuing on with the TNG 7th season. As you might have guessed, I don’t watch a lot of the 7th season episodes.

I watched Genesis originally when first it aired and I didn’t like it. I always felt this episode and Masks were the two worst of this final season. But upon re-viewing Genesis, I understood the reasons for the crew morphing into other species. But this time watching it, I had the benefit of seeing Voyager and the episode Threshold. They both had the same premise of the crew turning into another species. What I found difficult to believe in these stories is that the doctor could restore the crew back to their former selves. Kind of like McCoy being able to restore Kirk, Spock, Scott and himself from very old, back to young. But it’s the movies, so you go with it. It became a fun sort of horror story. Kind of like the Enterprise episode Impulse where the crew finds the disabled Vulcan ship and the trillium ore has made the Vulcans go Koo-Koo and become mad zombies. But Worf is the massive ancient Klingon! It wasn’t the best, but it was kind of fun and to see Picard un-turned yet and Data working to resolve the problem. In that spirit, I can kind of have fun with it.

Journey’s End I always liked. But I haven’t seen it in a long time, and maybe only twice have I seen it before. My take away was always that Wesley left the Enterprise and Starfleet to go with the Traveler in alternate planes. Whatever that meant. In my imagination, did that mean Wesley went beyond being a human and transformed? In re-watching it, I got a better understanding perhaps. It was the Traveler there who helped Wesley see he had another path, that was an aspect I’d forgotten. So Wesley realized his path lay in another direction then what was expected of him and his journey would be with the Traveler for a while. In the first season episode, The Traveler privately tells Picard that Wesley is special, that he should be nurtured. In this new episode, Wesley finally sees his true path by leaping beyond normal time and normal human existence. But that still wasn’t satisfactory explained. It was a nice way to wrap it up for the Wesley character that he might now be on a journey like Bowman has in 2001. The part that I struggled with is we see Wesley back in a Starfleet uniform in Star Trek Nemesis. But of course that was a cut scene I think. I’m not that familiar with the scene, it’s not a frequently watched film. So maybe he’s still out there floating among different planes of existence. I think he remains human, he just has this ability now to think past normal physics and break time and space and understand more beyond.

Last night I viewed First Born, another episode trying to tie up character threads, this time for Alexander. I recall seeing this one too on first run. On DVD and blu ray, it is not one I watched either. I remembered the story and I remembered the actor who plays the older Alexander. He was good as the Romulan admiral Jarok. Very distinctive voice and acting style. The episode kind of felt less resolved then Wesley’s story. In the end, Worf decides Alexander‘s path doesn’t have to be that of a warrior. He can be whoever he wants to be. Perhaps that felt unsatisfactory to the writers as they revisit Alexander in DS9. I’ll get to that episode later.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

I had been gone from this thread for a while, but figured I'd pop back in.

I'm starting a run of watching TNG again myself. Starting at S1. Mostly because my oldest son want's to see it. He loves TOS, including the movies and the re-boot movies. He's never really watched TNG or any of those movies even though he was around when my wife watched afternoon re-runs of TNG back in the late 90s/early 2000s. My son was just too young to really pay any attention. Now, in his early 20s (and still living with us), he and I pull it up on Amazon Prime to watch. I have the original DVD sets, but never got the Blu-rays. We last just finished "Datalore".

I did warn him that the first season can be a bit awkward - characters a bit stiff, a fair amount of Wesley's deus ex machina going on, very TOS like regarding sound stages for planets... and that it will linger into the next season before really kicking in. But, he's fine so far. Getting into the characters, getting the humor.

And, really, I haven't seen many of these episodes since they originally aired. Even though we have the DVD sets, I only pulled them out to watch a selected few episodes over the years. Unlike TOS where I went through all 40 2-episode DVDs at least twice, and went through all three Blu-ray season sets at least twice.

Going back to something mentioned a page or so back - I did see one of those Gene Roddenberry speeches back in the mid-70s. He came to LSU, and spoke in the Geology Building auditorium (now called Howe-Russell Geosciences Complex). I went with my mother, and he did play that black and white print of "The Cage".

 

[Nelson Au]

Well, this evening I completed my re-visiting of The Next Generation with All Good Things, yesterday I saw Preemptive Strike. I had not seen that episode for a long time, I was always sorry to see Ro‘s story end that way.

On this viewing of All Good Things, I started to wonder, I made the realization to wonder if the present time period that Picard was in really the real time period? Maybe it was an alternate timeline like the future timeline. Because it seemed like every episode that shows the Worf Troi relationship, it seems to be in either a parallel universe, or wasn’t an illusion. And then knowing the events in the new Picard series, I liked the ending of All Good Things where at the poker game, they realized the future won’t happen the way Q set it up. The future is not set. So the TNG finale didn’t set anything up other then Picard’s brain syndrome, that affects the new Picard series.

It’s sort of sad to see my revisit of TNG end even though I know the series really end 26 years ago. I just had not done a run through like this of the entire series, watching an episode everyday. It’s also great as I watched most of the series now during the Covid stay in place time.

It’s either now DS9 or Voyager to continue on.

 

[Nelson Au]

Joel, welcome back and enjoy the journey through TNG!

 

[Nelson Au]

I was thinking overnight about All Good Things. I saw it several times back in the day and over the years. But I had not seen it in probably 10 years or so. I already knew the story very well. But there was little stuff I’d not noticed before. Probably partly due to the higher resolution and image quality of the blu ray. The make-up people really went nuts on most of the cast. I never realized they gave the older Picard a paunch. Same with Geordi and Riker. Though I always felt they exaggerated the older make-up, especially for Riker. i never noticed the wrinkled neck on older Crusher! There is one element I never noticed before about Data’s Cambridge home. Data‘s house is over run with cats! That was a nice funny touch. Finally, I never liked the civilian clothes designs the cast wore on this series finale. I think the costume designer on Picard does a very good job. It’s very contemporary but looks futuristic still.

 

[Jason_V]

Finally, I never liked the civilian clothes designs the cast wore on this series finale.

Looking back on most of the non-Starfleet costumes in the Berman Era of Trek look dated and way too basic for me today. That also goes with the sets of any non-Enterprise ship. I totally understand everything ages over time and some of this Era is 25+ years old now. I also get the budget constraints they were under with the prehistoric era of green/blue screen on TV. And they were making 26 hour long episodes per year (compared to 10 or 13 for a lot of shows today).

Lots of kudos to everyone involved with all aspects of the shows that they hold up as well as they do today. But agreed: the civilian stuff isn't great (at least Wesley lost the sweaters and they got repurposed for Jake...).

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

It’s either now DS9 or Voyager to continue on.

If you're looking for recommendations, I'd go with DS9.

 

[Nelson Au]

Neil, I wasn’t looking for a recommendation, just thinking out loud. I actually started mixing in some random TOS episodes in the last two weeks. I’d already gone through a daily viewing last year of the entire series, but it’s nice to go back to my roots and see TOS.

It’s been a couple of years since I watched DS9. I find Voyager a little more accessible. But I really liked DS9 in the third year when things start to really heat up. However, there’s some episodes in the first two seasons I’ve not seen for some time, so I could go back and start from the beginning. I might try watching DS9’s first two seasons, then start watching both DS9 and start Voyager because that’s how I originally watched it as they were both on at the same time.

With the recent little teases last year that Star Trek The Motion Picture might be remastered, I’ve also been indulging in that film‘s soundtrack.

 

[Nelson Au]

Jason, Even when TNG was airing, I didn’t like the civilian costumes then either!

But agreed, like TOS, it’s great that the series is still working. I especially like to watch the third and fourth seasons, but this re-viewing reminded me of more episodes I really like to revisit in the 5th and 6th years. I honestly have not had as much affection for the 7th year. There’s several gems in there I really like though and several more that I thought was better then I remembered. But they didn’t rise to the earlier episodes. There’s probably at least 6 episodes in the first year I also really like.

 

[Harry-N]

We restarted DS9 around the time that H&I started it again a couple weeks ago. Not that we're watching the H&I versions with commercials...we're watching my DVDs. They seem about the best quality. The streaming versions aren't great either. DVDs look the best IMHO.

First we watched the documentary, WHAT WE LEFT BEHIND.

Then we watched the pilot, Emissary, and the second episode. To sync up with H&I, we skipped to Battle Lines #13, and have just completed Season 1.

Tonight we start S2.

 

[Jason_V]

Jason, Even when TNG was airing, I didn’t like the civilian costumes then either!

Totally. I'd venture to say the costumes largely became boring and pedestrian around the same time the music did...probably before that, too. I can "see" some of the non-SF costumes from early TNG in my head because they're fairly memorable. Later on everyone went to the same replicator and had two color choices: bland or blander.

This was, ironically, my problem with the second half of Discovery's S1. There are a set of non-SF costumes which look like nothing more than cos play to me. They look cheap and laughable.

It amazes me, watching any Berman Era Trek now, how much everything feels dated to me. Costumes, direction, editing, sets. This was all state of the art when the show aired but now...it's quaint. And quaint in a different way from TOS. (This doesn't stop me from watching TNG S1 episodes on the regular, though!)

 

[Nelson Au]

Harry, I totally forgot about What We Leave Behind. I have that on my viewing list!

 

[Sam Favate]

If you're looking for recommendations, I'd go with DS9.

I'm in the middle of rewatching DS9 - I'm in the middle of Season 3 - and loving it. It's just about my favorite of the Trek shows, so I feel compelled to watch the entire thing (I confess we did skip Move Along Home). It's been a whopping 12-13 years since I've seen the whole thing. Far too long. I had hoped I'd be watching in HD by now, but never give up hope!

 

[Nelson Au]

I went right into DS9 last night and started with Emissary.

I think it’s been may be 10 years for me too since I did a marathon viewing of the entire series.

I know the topic of remastering the series for HD has been discussed to death, but having come off about 6 months of watching the Next Generation In high definition, it’s a shock to go to the SD DVDs. But for some reason, Emissary looked almost like VHS. I’d watched the pilot for Voyager recently and I thought it looked more watchable. I just rescreened the teaser of Caretaker and the prologue scrolling text looked a little better then the scrolling text in DS9. That’s surprising. Image quality of both DS9 and Voyager though were not up to the TNG and TOS Blu Rays of course. I noticed the effects shots of Terok Nor had a lot of jaggy edges. Voyager was about as bad. Maybe it was because I was watching an MKV file I made from my DVD sets, so I didn’t have the benefit of upscaling from my Oppo player. Upon looking at both pilots, it seemed that DS9’s image did not have as much contrast as Voyager.

Back to topic, it was good to be reminded of the background and origins of the Orbs and the Kai. It also reminded me of the good times in the 90’s. The Next Generation was riding high with popularity and there was excitement for DS9 spinning off TNG. There were a few times I joined co-workers at their houses for viewing parties. I had a viewing party at my house too. Great times!

 

[Osato]

I'm in the middle of rewatching DS9 - I'm in the middle of Season 3 - and loving it. It's just about my favorite of the Trek shows, so I feel compelled to watch the entire thing (I confess we did skip Move Along Home). It's been a whopping 12-13 years since I've seen the whole thing. Far too long. I had hoped I'd be watching in HD by now, but never give up hope!

im about half way on season 4.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I went right into DS9 last night and started with Emissary.

I think it’s been may be 10 years for me too since I did a marathon viewing of the entire series.

I know the topic of remastering the series for HD has been discussed to death, but having come off about 6 months of watching the Next Generation In high definition, it’s a shock to go to the SD DVDs. But for some reason, Emissary looked almost like VHS. I’d watched the pilot for Voyager recently and I thought it looked more watchable. I just rescreened the teaser of Caretaker and the prologue scrolling text looked a little better then the scrolling text in DS9. That’s surprising. Image quality of both DS9 and Voyager though were not up to the TNG and TOS Blu Rays of course. I noticed the effects shots of Terok Nor had a lot of jaggy edges. Voyager was about as bad. Maybe it was because I was watching an MKV file I made from my DVD sets, so I didn’t have the benefit of upscaling from my Oppo player. Upon looking at both pilots, it seemed that DS9’s image did not have as much contrast as Voyager.

Back to topic, it was good to be reminded of the background and origins of the Orbs and the Kai. It also reminded me of the good times in the 90’s. The Next Generation was riding high with popularity and there was excitement for DS9 spinning off TNG. There were a few times I joined co-workers at their houses for viewing parties. I had a viewing party at my house too. Great times!

The codecs used for DVD and streaming both have tremendous difficulty with standard definition material that was processed in the analog realm. Something like DS9 and Voyager, shot on film at 24fps but then edited on tape at 29.97fps is about as difficult as it gets to reproduce in those formats. I’m actually surprised they didn’t look worse!

 

[TJPC]

I have several British shows (Monty Python, Hitchhikers Guide etc.) filmed in SD which have been "Blu rayed" through a BBC process. They are not pristine HD products, but much better than SD. Can't this process be used for the last 2 Star Trek series, or does it just work with PAL?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The codecs used on Blu-ray can be much more forgiving to older material thanks to higher bandwidth allotments.

But the real problem here is that these were shot on film at 24fps, but edited on video at 29.97fps - that bakes in a certain look and quality loss that’s impossible to reverse without going back to original film elements (as they did with the TNG Blu-rays). If you have the TOS Season 2 set, on the Trouble With Tribbles disc is an HD upscale of the DS9 tribble episode. It looks ever so slightly better than the version on the DS9 DVDs but it’s a minuscule difference.

The BBC Monty Python stuff tends to look better because they have the original film elements for the material shot on film, and the original video elements for the material shot on tape. They’re not starting with elements that have format and frame rate conversion artifacts already built in.

 

[Nelson Au]

I forgot about the Trials and Tribblations episode being in the season 2 set. I still have hope there will be a DS9 and Voyager remaster. And Enterprise, I believe didn’t have a remaster, the lI’ve action film elements for at least the 2nd, third and fourth seasons were HD already, they just upscaled the visual effects on the blu ray. I look forward to watching that again too. More episodes to convert to MKV.

Thanks for the explanation Josh about the conversion of the frame rates causing the drop in image quality.