Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films)

Nelson Au

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Josh, your interest in seeing the black and white version of The Cage had me doing some searching around the web. And I am surprised a little by what I found on one forum. I’ve never done a serious comparison of each home video permutation of The Cage.

On a Trekcore forum, I found a post where a fan described the differences between each one. I’ll have to review my copies when I find some time to do so. So I can’t vouch for how accurate this guys research is, but it looks pretty good.

With each home video edition of The Cage that came out, each to me was a better version then the last. And I trusted that Paramount at the time was putting it back the way it originally was. But according to this guy, there’s differences.

To see the original version Roddenberry showed that’s the B&W one will be interesting.
 
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BobO'Link

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I've seen the one Roddenberry showed. That was when I was in college, around 1974 or so, during one of his college tours where he talked Trek and showed that film (I'd also recently got cable TV, which was new in town, with a whopping 12 channels, one of which showed Star Trek every week day and I'd scheduled classes around it). IIRC we also saw another episode but I don't recall which. The showing was held in the old basketball "stadium" (a hanger type thing attached to the back of the "History" building with bench seating on one end - all "shows" and concerts were in that venue). I want to think a cast member was with him - I have vague recollections of Koenig but don't recall for sure (things were kind of "hazy" in those years).
 
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KPmusmag

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Did I dream this, or was the B&W The Cage shown once on TV with Roddenberry hosting/commenting? It is a pretty strong memory, but maybe it was the hybrid version. I remember being fascinated to see it, as I had never seen that footage outside of of The Menagerie.
 

ScottRE

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Did I dream this, or was the B&W The Cage shown once on TV with Roddenberry hosting/commenting? It is a pretty strong memory, but maybe it was the hybrid version. I remember being fascinated to see it, as I had never seen that footage outside of of The Menagerie.
Yeah, it was definitely the hybrid version. It wasalso released that way on Home Video: VHS, Laserdisc, DVD and BD. Actually, running it in full b&w woul dhave been less distracting.
 
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AndyMcKinney

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In the history of television, no television series has had the unique opportunity of seeing not one but two pilot episodes produced other than STAR TREK.
That may have been true in 1965, but certainly not now. Star Trek is no longer the only show to have been given two pilots. If you limit this to prime-time dramas, the field probably remains narrow, but if you include all television (including game shows), there are plenty of other shows that had more than one pilot.

Star Trek might have been the first, but it's not the "only."
 

Rick Thompson

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That may have been true in 1965, but certainly not now. Star Trek is no longer the only show to have been given two pilots. If you limit this to prime-time dramas, the field probably remains narrow, but if you include all television (including game shows), there are plenty of other shows that had more than one pilot.

Star Trek might have been the first, but it's not the "only."
One of those two-pilot shows was Harry O, which starred David Janssen. The first was "Such Things as Dreams Are Made Of," which was considered too downbeat. (A chunk of it was used in the episode "Elegy to a Cop," which killed off Manny Quinlan, played by Henry Darrow.) Creator Howard Rodman then wrote a second pilot, "Smile Jenny, You're Dead." It co-starred Clu Gulagher, Andrea Marcovicci, Zalman King and an early teenaged Jodie Foster. The show went to series, and ran two years and the ratings to continue, but it was canceled when Fred Silverman made ABC the "jiggle network" with shows like "Charlie's Angels." Janssen, who loved the character, vowed never to do another series.
 

Blimpoy06

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Did I dream this, or was the B&W The Cage shown once on TV with Roddenberry hosting/commenting? It is a pretty strong memory, but maybe it was the hybrid version. I remember being fascinated to see it, as I had never seen that footage outside of of The Menagerie.
I don't think the Home Video version ever aired on television. Patrick Stewart hosted a special that had many interviews and included The Cage complete for the first time on television. "The Star Trek Saga: From One Generation to the Next":

The Star Trek Saga: From One Generation to the Next
 
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ScottRE

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Nelson Au

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My Star Trek TNG re-viewing concluded the 6th season last night with Descent and I also watched part 2 to make it a full feature.

I thought the Sixth season had some really good episodes. Though I admit I intentionally skipped watching Frame of Mind. I think I only saw this episode once or twice during its initial broadcast and it never worked for me. Unless someone can convince me to re-view it. Maybe like The Alternative Factor in TOS, I’ll find something else in it. Though I never hated The Alternative Factor, it is an unusual Outer Limits like episode that I found more redeeming when seen that way.

What I noticed more during the season was it started to feel like Gunsmoke, a series I never really watched. I bring it up because I have seen a few episodes on Decades or MeTV and it felt like they focused more on the individual characters. Worf’s crisis of Faith, Data’s learning more about dreaming and his father, Beverly’s episodes, Geordi’s episode, etc. so it was less about the team efforts to solve a problem. Oh yeah, and Riker’s episode, Second Chances. An episode I always liked a lot was The Chase and Starship Mine. I really liked the Roddenbery-isms of that episode. Could have made a good two parter, but might have felt padded. And I liked how it forges a more aligned view between the Romulans and Picard.

Descent Part 1 and 2 has not aged well for me. I never watched it much and I was surprised to see that I bought the Season 7 blu ray at the time of release and I see I never opened it till now. So I have not seen Descent Pt 2 in a very very long time. At least it put a closure on the Lore storyline for the series. And on this viewing, it had the added dimension of seeing Hugh. I’d forgotten his involvement in the episode. It was liking the episode for the first time as I’d forgotten how some sequences went. Spoiler alert: this episode has an added depth now after seeing the new Picard series.

I will start to delve into the seventh season in the coming days, but my recollection is it’s an odder season then the 6th. i haven’t seen Gambit in a while and it felt like Gunsmoke, taking the characters away from the ship into new places. It had some memorable episodes and the finale of course.
 

Neil S. Bulk

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That may have been true in 1965, but certainly not now. Star Trek is no longer the only show to have been given two pilots. If you limit this to prime-time dramas, the field probably remains narrow, but if you include all television (including game shows), there are plenty of other shows that had more than one pilot.

Star Trek might have been the first, but it's not the "only."
Not even close. Here's an article that looks into the claim about Star Trek being the first series to get a second pilot. TL;DR: it wasn't, not by a long shot.

Neil
 

BobO'Link

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What I noticed more during the season was it started to feel like Gunsmoke, a series I never really watched. I bring it up because I have seen a few episodes on Decades or MeTV and it felt like they focused more on the individual characters. Worf’s crisis of Faith, Data’s learning more about dreaming and his father, Beverly’s episodes, Geordi’s episode, etc. so it was less about the team efforts to solve a problem. Oh yeah, and Riker’s episode, Second Chances. An episode I always liked a lot was The Chase and Starship Mine. I really liked the Roddenbery-isms of that episode. Could have made a good two parter, but might have felt padded. And I liked how it forges a more aligned view between the Romulans and Picard.
Character development episodes. I don't much care for them. I can get that from interactions with other people and those short cutaways to see what people are doing in a crisis. With a series like Star Trek, any version, it's the group that's the thing. Sure the individuals matter but that's not why most people watch these type series.
 

Nelson Au

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I agree. But when they do these types of episodes well, they are good.

Now that I think about it, Galileo Seven comes to mind. That’s a Spock episode. Of course there’s good support from McCoy and Scotty, but it’s about Spock having to make the command decisions in a life or death situation.
 
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Sam Favate

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I thought the Sixth season had some really good episodes. Though I admit I intentionally skipped watching Frame of Mind. I think I only saw this episode once or twice during its initial broadcast and it never worked for me. Unless someone can convince me to re-view it.
Funny, Frame of Mind is just about the only Brannon Braga "what-is-reality" episode I can stomach, mostly because of Jonathan Frakes' great performance. (I guess I like Paralells too). So much of his writing was the same old thing, where it tried to fake out the audience, only to resolve in the end. I don't think he was a good fit for Star Trek.
 

Nelson Au

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Ha, ha! Remember back in the day Brannon Braga was interviewed in Starlog (IIRC) and photographed wearing a robe and looking evil. He was labeled the devil incarnate to Star Trek! He never denied it at the time. But in recent years, my impression of him has changed as he’s owned up to his comments that upset fans. He’s also acknowledged errors for the finale of Enterprise.

Well, maybe I will take another look at Frame of Mind. For the sake of completeness and to look for what you found appealing about it.

About Braga episodes, I've always liked The Next Phase because of the delightful performances of Burton and Forbes. I liked the concept about being clocked, but the actors made the episode work. Cause and Effect was an interesting idea and it was new at the time, I didn’t find it as engaging this time around, but I didn’t hate. I still like it. My recent viewing of Timescape hasn’t changed either, I thought it was an pretty good concept and the actors sold it. Though it did feel sort of same-old, same-old. I liked Paralells a lot too, though it was getting out there weird. I’ll be watching it soon, so maybe my feelings have changed. The memorable line was the alternate timeline Riker screaming Nooo! :). But like the Kelvin Universe, these modern takes on alternative universes I find increasingly hard to take. I just don’t buy the Quantum theory, or whatever it’s called as the writers try to couch it.
 
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Harry-N

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I love alternate timelines, universes, and realities. The possibilities are endless and sets the mind reeling.

Always loved "Frame Of Mind" and the other eps just mentioned.
 

Nelson Au

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I watched Frame of Mind the other day. I think my view of it has improved, I had not remembered how it was resolved, but I kind of figured it was going there. It was kind of like First Contact, when Riker is captured on the planet. Except this was a darker version!

I’m 5 episodes into the seventh season and it almost feels like I’m watching a series of lost episodes. Decent Part 2 was almost like a new experience, I remember seeing it and I remember that night watching it. But I had not seen it in a long time, so I’d forgotten how they resolved it. Except I remember that part about the chip. I have not seen the entire seventh season in a long time. Interface was kind of weak. I guess we never learn what happens to Geordi’s mother’s ship? Liaison similarly was kind of weak, but I liked the concept. I remembered I actually enjoyed the business on the Enterprise more as the ambassadors were indulging in food with Troi and aggression with Worf. Gambit I had not seen so long I forgot the way it ended. I read the ending was written out of desperation by Ron Moore and he was thinking it might have been too Roddenberry-ish and saccharine. I liked how it ended and the business with Data in command. I think the part that led me to not want to see it was the business of pirates in space and how Picard was pretending while on their ship. I accidentally skipped ahead and watched Lower Decks. (Snafu from how I was ripping the episodes for Plex) I liked Lower Decks. I’d forgotten how it ended and I hoped they would do it that way, gave the episode more grit. It made loosing that character more sad given how she messed up at the Academy and worked so hard to redeem herself.

I’m not looking forward to Phantasm and Masks and Genesis but I’ll be watching them. Those episodes felt so odd. it was like they were really experimenting with stories during this final season, or the writers were really tired.
 

Sam Favate

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I’m not looking forward to Phantasm and Masks and Genesis but I’ll be watching them. Those episodes felt so odd. it was like they were really experimenting with stories during this final season, or the writers were really tired.
They were distracted. Pillar and Taylor were setting up Voyager while Braga and Moore were writing AGT and Generations. Everyone was spread too thin and TNG suffered.
 

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