Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (3 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

Sam, i’ll add Requiem for Methuselah and The Tholian Web to your list. The Paradise Syndrone, Spectre of the Gun, Elaan of Troyius, That Which Survives, and The Cloud Minders are additional top episodes in my mind.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I just read the biography for DeForest Kelley earlier this year, and The Empath was cited as his favorite or one of his favorite episodes.

 

[TJPC]

I absolutely loath all Star Trek episodes where they land on a planet, or go back in time or use the holodeck and discover — surprise surprise — they are in the old west and everyone dresses like cowboys! I’d watch “Gunsmoke” if I want to see this!
Recently an episode of “Legends of Tomorrow” actually used this tired old device.

 

[BobO'Link]

I've always disliked most holodeck episodes. I maintain they smack of lazy writing or only serve to allow the writer(s) to use a script actually written for another show with little more than a Trek wrap-around and changing names to make them fit.

I've grown to like many of the "land on a planet and discover it's representative of another time/era of Earth" episodes. However, there are none of those I'd rank in my favorites.

I've always disliked minimalistic set episodes of any series. It's one of the things that, IMHO, detracts most from Lost in Space. It's a primary reason I dislike "The Empath," although I also do not care for "Gem." Add yet another "unknown superior race who's captured crew members for experiments/play/no good reason" trope and it hits my "meh" button.

 

[Blimpoy06]

My opinion of The Empath shot way up on one viewing when I paid more attention and noticed how Gem was able to see how devoted Spock was to Kirk and McCoy. And the warm smile she had from touching Spock was so telling.

I have always enjoyed "The Empath". The landing party is truly isolated in this episode. It really shows their ability for self sacrifice and solidifies the bond between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. A visually powerful show that I believe the BBC would not air until the 80's due to the scenes of torture. The music score by George Dunning is one of my favorites for the series.

Since it was recently released, I'm surprised no one has noticed the similarities between "The Empath" and the season one episode "Nightmare" of The Outer Limits. Besides the method of aliens testing the limits of humans, both shows share a similar sparse set design and the same director.

 

[Blimpoy06]

"The Way to Eden" (I very much dislike any and all TV show episodes which attempted to inject "hippie" culture as they all failed miserably)

I'll continue to look on the bright side and defend the weak and abused episodes of Star Trek. There is a reason why Trek is my favorite show of all time. I can find something interesting or thought provoking in each episode.

"The Way To Eden" is superficially about "hippies in space". But their is a really interesting sub-text at it's core. That of outsiders, or individuals who do not fit in or enjoy the perfect society of the Federation portrayed by Star Trek. The leader, Dr. Sevrin, has been further ostracized by the virus he carries. A virus created by the artificial environments used in the 23rd Century. His desire to retreat to an idealistic and primitive world is born out of his resentment towards modern living and the limitations it has imposed upon him.

 

[Jeff Flugel]

I absolutely loath all Star Trek episodes where they land on a planet, or go back in time or use the holodeck and discover — surprise surprise — they are in the old west and everyone dresses like cowboys! I’d watch “Gunsmoke” if I want to see this!

Hmm. Not sure about writing off all episodes of Star Trek: TOS (or any Trek series, for that matter) where the crew land on a planet...think that's a good 70% or more of the show! I generally prefer the planet-based stories to the ship-based ones, myself, though I'll readily admit that many ship-based stories are among the best of the series.

I do agree that many of the later-series holodeck episodes can be somewhat lame or lazy. But give me a good, action-packed classic Trek episode where the regulars beam down to a planet, Kirk smooches a space babe and does that jump where he takes down two or three bad guys at once, and I'm a happy fella.

I'll continue to look on the bright side and defend the weak and abused episodes of Star Trek. There is a reason why Trek is my favorite show of all time. I can find something interesting or thought provoking in each episode.

"The Way To Eden" is superficially about "hippies in space". But their is a really interesting sub-text at it's core. That of outsiders, or individuals who do not fit in or enjoy the perfect society of the Federation portrayed by Star Trek. The leader, Dr. Sevrin, has been further ostracized by the virus he carries. A virus created by the artificial environments used in the 23rd Century. His desire to retreat to an idealistic and primitive world is born out of his resentment towards modern living and the limitations it has imposed upon him.

Star Trek: TOS is one of my all-time favorite series too, but even I can't defend "The Way to Eden," Darin...though I commend you for trying! I've always despised that episode (though viewing it as an adult, I admit it does have some camp value). I'm not fond of "The Empath" either, though that one is well done for what it is...it's just not to my taste.

I agree with the general consensus above that season 3 has some very good episodes in it, and even some of the bad ones are fun. For example, I've always liked "The Savage Curtain," even though it's got some dumb stuff in it. And though everyone always disses season 3, there are some definite duds in the first and second seasons, as well.

 

[bmasters9]

I agree with the general consensus above that season 3 has some very good episodes in it, and even some of the bad ones are fun. For example, I've always liked "The Savage Curtain," even though it's got some dumb stuff in it. And though everyone always disses season 3, there are some definite duds in the first and second seasons, as well.

That is quite true, Jeff-- "The Omega Glory" being an infamous second-season stinker.

 

[Jeff Flugel]

That is quite true, Jeff-- "The Omega Glory" being an infamous second-season stinker.

Funnily enough, I quite like "The Omega Glory" - lots of good action and running around on a planet, etc....until that terrible ending, with its frankly ludicrous final revelation (which is not helped by Kirk's over-the-top speech.)

Upon reflection, season 1 is very strong indeed, with only the dreary "The Alternative Factor" letting the side down. Season 2 is also crammed with classics, and even the much-derided "The Apple" (as previously stated in this thread) is one I get a kick out of, silly though it may be.

Also, what I think of as poor or boring episodes of classic Trek are often cited by other fans as among the best. I know a lot of people really rate "Return to Tomorrow" but I've never cared for that episode (any ep where a lead character is possessed is never that interesting to me, plus this particular episode has Diana Mulduar in it, which is usually enough to make me run for the hills). And many of the deliberately comic episodes are just OK in my book - like "A Piece of the Action."

 

[bmasters9]

Funnily enough, I quite like "The Omega Glory" - lots of good action and running around on a planet, etc....until that terrible ending, with its frankly ludicrous final revelation (which is not helped by Kirk's over-the-top speech.)

Did not know that-- I was going off what others have said about it (then again, as with anything, OMMV [one's mileage may vary]).

 

[Jeff Flugel]

Did not know that-- I was going off what others have said about it (then again, as with anything, OMMV [one's mileage may vary]).

Oh, I'm sure I'm in a distinct minority on liking this one.

 

[BobO'Link]

Funnily enough, I quite like "The Omega Glory" - lots of good action and running around on a planet, etc....until that terrible ending, with its frankly ludicrous final revelation (which is not helped by Kirk's over-the-top speech.)

Upon reflection, season 1 is very strong indeed, with only the dreary "The Alternative Factor" letting the side down. Season 2 is also crammed with classics, and even the much-derided "The Apple" (as previously stated in this thread) is one I get a kick out of, silly though it may be.

Also, what I think of as poor or boring episodes of classic Trek are often cited by other fans as among the best. I know a lot of people really rate "Return to Tomorrow" but I've never cared for that episode (any ep where a lead character is possessed is never that interesting to me, plus this particular episode has Diana Mulduar in it, which is usually enough to make me run for the hills). And many of the deliberately comic episodes are just OK in my book - like "A Piece of the Action."

I, too, have never cared for Muldaur in ST. Muldaur was the "straw that broke the camel's back" for me with TNG. I wasn't overly fond of S1 and was ready for S2 but when she showed up as ship's doctor I was done. I only watched the occasional episode of that one until I purchased the series a couple of years back.

When it comes right down to it, many of the episodes I "dislike" are fairly good but the best episodes set too high a bar which made those lesser episodes feel worse by comparison. In spite of that, I'd rather watch them than just about any SF TV offering of the past ~10 years. Part of that is the "comfort food" aspect but part is that it's just good SF of a type that's rarely been seen since.

 

[TJPC]

Hmm. Not sure about writing off all episodes of Star Trek: TOS (or any Trek series, for that matter) where the crew land on a planet...think that's a good 70% or more of the show! I generally prefer the planet-based stories to the ship-based ones, myself, though I'll readily admit that many ship-based stories are among the best of the series.

I do agree that many of the later-series holodeck episodes can be somewhat lame or lazy. But give me a good, action-packed classic Trek episode where the regulars beam down to a planet, Kirk smooches a space babe and does that jump where he takes down two or three bad guys at once, and I'm a happy fella.



Star Trek: TOS is one of my all-time favorite series too, but even I can't defend "The Way to Eden," Darin...though I commend you for trying! I've always despised that episode (though viewing it as an adult, I admit it does have some camp value). I'm not fond of "The Empath" either, though that one is well done for what it is...it's just not to my taste.

I agree with the general consensus above that season 3 has some very good episodes in it, and even some of the bad ones are fun. For example, I've always liked "The Savage Curtain," even though it's got some dumb stuff in it. And though everyone always disses season 3, there are some definite duds in the first and second seasons, as well.

I think you missed my point. There are many planet fall episodes I really enjoy. The ones I hate however are the COWBOY/WESTERN ones.

 

[Jeff Flugel]

I think you missed my point. There are many planet fall episodes I really enjoy. The ones I hate however are the COWBOY/WESTERN ones.

Fair enough, sorry I misinterpreted your post. I can only think of 2 such episodes ("Spectre of the Gun" and "A Fistful of Datas") where this happens, though...are there more?

Do you feel the same way about other historical periods in Trek...like Robin Hood as in "Qpid," or Nazis, as in "Patterns of Force"? Or is it just the western ones? Not being argumentative, just curious.

 

[Jeff Flugel]

I, too, have never cared for Muldaur in ST. Muldaur was the "straw that broke the camel's back" for me with TNG. I wasn't overly fond of S1 and was ready for S2 but when she showed up as ship's doctor I was done. I only watched the occasional episode of that one until I purchased the series a couple of years back.

When it comes right down to it, many of the episodes I "dislike" are fairly good but the best episodes set too high a bar which made those lesser episodes feel worse by comparison. In spite of that, I'd rather watch them than just about any SF TV offering of the past ~10 years. Part of that is the "comfort food" aspect but part is that it's just good SF of a type that's rarely been seen since.

Definitely agree with all of the above, at least as it pertains to TOS, Next Gen and DS9...and especially, Diana Mulduar! Other than the late, lamented Firefly, the imperfect but intriguing Westworld and a handful of others, most of what passes for sci-fi these days is thin gruel indeed...either bereft of fresh ideas (most network or basic cable sci-fi shows of the past decade or more), or admirably ambitious but lacking in compelling characters (like The Expanse). Fantasy, on the other hand, has been well served in recent years.

 

[TJPC]

Fair enough, sorry I misinterpreted your post. I can only think of 2 such episodes ("Spectre of the Gun" and "A Fistful of Datas") where this happens, though...are there more?

Do you feel the same way about other historical periods in Trek...like Robin Hood as in "Qpid," or Nazis, as in "Patterns of Force"? Or is it just the western ones? Not being argumentative, just curious.

No — the western ones have a cheap — let’s - use - the - back - lot - and - all - those - costumes -we - already - have look and feel.

 

[Blimpoy06]

And many of the deliberately comic episodes are just OK in my book - like "A Piece of the Action."

I consider the mid point of season two to be the low point for stories during the original series."A Piece Of The Action", "The Trouble With Tribbles" and my all time least favorite "I,Mudd". The show was on a dangerous journey experimenting with comedy that was approaching the camp value of Lost In Space, Batman and later Man From U.N.C.L.E. This is the same reason I dislike most holodeck episodes in the Berman era. The writers feel it's OK to be cute in that area. "Q-Pid" is stupid for me. Same with the "Captain Proton" garbage Voyager was doing.

I appreciate the tone change in Star Trek TOS season three in returning to mostly serious story telling. "Spock's Brain" being from the pen of Gene Coon, it retain his comedic sensibilities for the characters. "Plato's Stepchildren" has moments where Kirk and Spock are degrading. But that is intentional as part of the story to force McCoy to stay. Spock's reaction to the humiliation and Kirk's talks with Alexander are great moments for the series. Without being grandiose, Kirk tells Alexander that where he comes from, no one is judged on appearance. Alexander is aloud to leave the oppression of Platonious and live a fuller, better life.

 

[TravisR]

Since The Trouble With Tribbles was brought up, is that an episode that people legitimately like or is it that they're kinda laughing at it? Prior to watching the series, it's gotta be the episode that I was most familiar with and I enjoyed it because it seemed like everyone was having fun but I did have to wonder if it was an episode that fans liked.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Love it. It's a wonderful change of pace episode. Also it's one of the top episodes to make best use of the full cast and has some fantastic guest stars. As a plus it has my series favorite Kirk/Scotty exchanges and a helluva fun bar fight scene.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I love Trouble With Tribbles, particularly Kirk’s exasperation with the situation. Almost every Trek episode is focused on some major problem the crew must solve, but I love the idea that sometimes the Enterprise has to deal with stuff that’s below their pay grade.

Any of the Trek episodes, from any of the series, that tell stories with humor often make it high on my lists of favorites. The ending tags on many TOS episodes have a touch of humor but it’s great to see it extended for a full episode. And I think it’s just as important to the world building - if these characters are going to be living on a ship away from home for five years, they’re not going to be solemn every moment of the day.

I wish Trek had told more stories with humor.

There was a Discovery episode this season where there’s a time loop thing going on that one of the main characters must solve. But as the same day loops over and over, we see the captain (who strangely is not the main character) dealing with a minor issue unrelated to the main plot, and the more exasperated he gets, and the more we see the same situation play out, the funnier it gets. And I loved that.

Btw, count me as perhaps the only person who genuinely enjoys The Alternative Factor.