Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (1 Viewer)

[Nelson Au]

Hey Ben, just saw your post, thanks! Babel is a great episode and it’s the episode that keeps giving as its referenced so much in later series and led to more Sarek appearances.

 

[Blimpoy06]

Everyone has something to do too. Uhura working on the com panel, Spock trying to figure out how to get through the Force field. Sulu working the problem with Spock

This is my favorite style of story in Star Trek. The crew of the Enterprise working to solve a problem using their individual knowledge and skill. There were too few of these in my opinion.

It’s got that great Fred Steiner score of course

Any score by Steiner is enjoyable. This particular score comes across as a "greatest hits" of many of his themes from season one. Mudd's Women and Corbomite Maneuver mostly. I do enjoy the Enterprise Fanfare when the ship is firing phasers on Apollo's temple.

And one other thing that had not occurred to me before, Carolyn is seduced by the one thing she’s really into, ancient civilizations, kind of like how Marla McGivers is seduced by the ancient bold men of the past.

As good as the writing was while Gene Coon was producing, there are lots of themes and character beats that seem to repeat. "The Apple" will visit many of the same ideas presented in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" The ending is almost a direct lift.

 

[Nelson Au]

Darin, certainly I can imagine with the pressure to produce a weekly series by a few people with the limited resources, there is going to be a certain degree of re-use of themes. The later series certainly enjoyed greater help in all areas to be creative.

I forgot to add, if you think about it, Who Mourns for Adonais could certainly have been made as a Twilight Zone episode.

 

[benbess]

This is perhaps a dangerous topic to bring up, but Black Mirror had done a parody of Star Trek called "USS Callister." It's on Netflix.

Hasn't anyone else here seen it? I didn't particularly like this episode, but it's getting a lot of critical acclaim.

In an interview with star Cristin Milioti, she says, "My 12-year-old self was just flipping out: To sit in a captain’s chair in a spaceship and say, “I got this” is crazy! That’s not who we see in the chair growing up as a girl."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/l...stin-milioti-space-epic-uss-callister-1070670

Actually, when she was 12, Star Trek: Voyager, starring Kate Mulgrew as Captain Janeway, had been on for 2 years. I guess she didn't watch it. But I thought the episode was a poor parody of Star Trek from the 1960s-1980s. No one in my family liked, including my wife, my son and my daughter. Anyway, just our 2 cents.

 

[Nelson Au]

I’m not a Netflix’s subscriber, so I have no idea what Black Mirror is and I didn’t read your link to avoid spoilers in case I ever do.

You mean your wife and son and daughter didn’t like Black Mirror or Voyager?

I carried on with Friday’s Child and The Doomsday Machine. I was quite enjoying the TOS soundtrack tracks for Friday’s Child and Doomsday Machine, not to not mention Amok Time either, all great stuff. It’s interesting that I’ve really enjoyed the first season discs a lot in that set, but there’s a lot of cool Steiner work with some really majestic themes for the Enterprise as well as the tracks for Adonais.

It was fun to see Friday’s Child again as I had forgottten about the comedic qualities infused from Kirk shaming Spock to try the sonic vibration trick, to Spock giving McCoy that look as McCoy is treating Eleen to McCoy’s business with Eleen. The episode trending back and forth between serious life and death to lighter moments.

The Doomsday Machine is always fun action. When the remastering was done in 2006, I thought it opened the scope for this episode and made it even more fun. But somehow the remaster, as good as it was done for this episode at that time, I chose to go back and forth and mostly watched with the original effects and the original soundtrack without the enhanced sound effects. I noticed the music was slightly muted for the scenes of the Doomsday Machine as it flies by and you hear the machinations of the Machine. The original with the music really made that sequence more engaging! They knew what they were doing to get the most out of the scenes without the fancy effects. The limitations of using the damaged AMT model kit for the Constellation does look dated, and the jagged flight looks hokey but it is what it is. I didn’t think I’d say this, but watching The Doomsday Machine in the original version does still work well and I can forgive some limitation in the effects. In someways the original wind-sock model of the Doomsday Machine is better then the digital model.

It certainly reminds me of the time when these first aired and people complained about how “plasticky” the Enterprise model looks, they were deliberately making it look dumbed down in an attempt to make it look more in line with a 1960’s TV show. I have to wonder if they just matched the shots like they did for TNG and rendered the model to look more real if it might have worked better. In my own experiences doing a CG model of the Enterprise, I rendered it exactly like the studio model and I thought it looked pretty good for my efforts not being in the biz.

 

[benbess]

All of us really like Voyager.

It's this Black Mirror parody of Trek and Trek fans that we don't like.

 

[KPmusmag]

The Doomsday Machine is always fun action. When the remastering was done in 2006, I thought it opened the scope for this episode and made it even more fun. But somehow the remaster, as good as it was done for this episode at that time, I chose to go back and forth and mostly watched with the original effects and the original soundtrack without the enhanced sound effects. I noticed the music was slightly muted for the scenes of the Doomsday Machine as it flies by and you hear the machinations of the Machine. The original with the music really made that sequence more engaging! They knew what they were doing to get the most out of the scenes without the fancy effects. The limitations of using the damaged AMT model kit for the Constellation does look dated, and the jagged flight looks hokey but it is what it is. I didn’t think I’d say this, but watching The Doomsday Machine in the original version does still work well and I can forgive some limitation in the effects. In someways the original wind-sock model of the Doomsday Machine is better then the digital model.

It certainly reminds me of the time when these first aired and people complained about how “plasticky” the Enterprise model looks, they were deliberately making it look dumbed down in an attempt to make it look more in line with a 1960’s TV show. I have to wonder if they just matched the shots like they did for TNG and rendered the model to look more real if it might have worked better. In my own experiences doing a CG model of the Enterprise, I rendered it exactly like the studio model and I thought it looked pretty good for my efforts not being in the biz.

I was stuck in a hotel room Friday and Doomsday Machine was on some channel or the other - with tons and tons of commercials. Good heavens- but still compelling. When I finally got home the first thing I did (after pouring a bourbon) was put that episode on in the projector room. TBH I watched it twice - with new effects and original. You know what - it doesn't really matter. Good drama, good acting, good story. One of my favorites.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Ben for the clarification. I reread your post and realized what you meant.

Kevin, agreed that when the stories and acting are good, Star Trek TOS transcends any perceived limitations it had.

 

[BobO'Link]

The only thing that ever bothered me about "Doomsday Machine" was all the bleed-through on the matte shots. I know they had limited budget but you'd think for something that was, essentially, a main character in the episode they'd have made a better effort with the matte shots and done something to correct/prevent that bleed-through.

 

[Nelson Au]

I’m not sure there was bleed through if you refer to the Doomsday Machine itself. There are shots where you see stars pass behind it and I always attributed that to the translucent nature of the material the model could have been made from, such as the resins used in fiberglass. And I thought that added to its effect.

Of course through out the run of the series, the Enterprise was riddled with matte issues.

These are the high def screen caps from The Doomsday Machine from Trekcore’s image section.

 

[bmasters9]

Found on a YouTube clip of a vintage WXIA newscast from April 1980 (WXIA Channel 11 then being the ABC station of Atlanta; now NBC [became so later in 1980, IIRC]): this promo for O-R Trek, weekdays at 4

 

[Nelson Au]

I tried to find that video on YouTube, but didn’t find it. It is cool to see the vintage ads like that. . There is one for a Florida station I’ve seen where Shatner is talking to the camera from the Engineering set about joining them on their Star Treks, or words like that.

I went with Mirror Mirror as my most recent episode viewing. It’s like City on The Edge of Forever, not an episode I like to watch too often, though I’ve seen it many many times in syndication as a kid. I try not to see some episodes too often or they might become too familiar and loose some impact.

It was quite an enjoyable viewing. I never noticed a couple of things before. Sulu’s scar didn’t look too good, the edges of the appliance were visible. When Kirk, McCoy, Scotty and Uhura enter McCoy’s office, they enter from the right side. So that must mean they had to pass through the examination and O.R. of sickbay. But for some reason, the way it’s edited, could they have been trying to show the subtle differences of the ship and imply they entered McCoy’s office from a different entrance? Maybe I’m just reading too much into it.

I realized possibly why Kirk’s chair has the high back, it must be to prevent someone from shooting him from behind! So I guess Commodore Wesley had that concern.

There’s one aspect that I never liked of all the sequel episodes of Mirror Mirror on DS9 and Enterprise is the extreme differences of the evil counterparts. I thought they were a little too angry. Though I liked the Evil Kira, it was a much better written and acted version as she wasn’t overly angry. But I noticed that there was a bit of that in the original episode. But maybe because the evil Kirk, McCoy Uhura and Scott were angry at being thrown in the brig. Sulu was just right at his evil antics, Chekhov was bad but not coo-coo angry. Evil Spock was cool because he was the same, except he was, as Kirk said, a willing part of it. He didn’t mind giving Kyle the punishment he got. He was appropriately curious to find the reasons for Kirk’s odd behavior. I even liked how Kirk’s personal guard was shocked to see Kirk at first appear to side with the crew member who saved him from assasination then later his shock that Kirk ordered Chekhov be released from the Agony Booth.

And then I’m always amused at Barbara Luna’s performance as the good Marlena. Her reaction to a Kirk noticing her was funny, then later as he approaches her at the front of the bridge as the episode ends, she is looking surprised be his interest in her.

I just realized that this weekends new first episode of Star Trek Discovery, chapter 2 might be what the rumors say, then seeing Mirror Mirror might have been appropriate.

 

[Nelson Au]

I followed up Mirror Mirror with The Apple. Not having seen it in a while it was kind of fun.

The Apple is also the infamous episode that started the Red Shirt idea as we all know so well. . However I noticed in The Changling, there are four red shirts killed by Nomad. And The Changling was filmed and aired before the The Apple, with the same number of red shirts killed. And Uhura was injured and Scott Is killed, and brought back to life.

However it was interesting to watch as each security officer is killed in a different manner. Hendorff was killed by the poison darts, Kaplan is zapped by lightning, Mallory is blown up by the exploding rocks, and Marple is hit over the head by the villagers. It’s also interesting how Spock is so horribly attacked several times, once by the darts, and once by the lightning bolt and maybe some would argue McCoy’s potions.

Of course the main theme is similar to Return of the Archons and the idea of a society controlled by a computer and freedoms we take for granted are not allowed. But I also wonder about the arguments Spock makes about the Prime Directive. It was sort of brushed off at the end of the episode by the Satan joke at Spock’s expense.

 

[Carabimero]

Not much new here but I'll take any scrap I can get....

http://comicbook.com/startrek/2018/01/07/chris-hemsworth-star-trek-4/

 

[BobO'Link]

^I don't know if I can wrap my head around Tarantino doing a Star Trek film. I really like his work... I just can't imagine him doing Trek. But I also couldn't wrap my head around Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne/Batman and that turned out to be, IMHO, the best Batman on film (it didn't hurt that both Burton's Batman films are superb).

I also, truly, do not want any more Abramsverse (aka Kelvin Timeline) Trek - unless they somehow see fit to tell a real story worthy of the Trek name and not just wrap Trek names around a generic SF action movie... again.

 

[Blimpoy06]

I also, truly, do not want any more Abramsverse (aka Kelvin Timeline) Trek - unless they somehow see fit to tell a real story worthy of the Trek name and not just wrap Trek names around a generic SF action movie... again.

This may be a good time to bring this up. What exactly should Star Trek be for the 21st Century? What makes Star Trek unique and not just another tent pole action movie? Do we have to have Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise? Can we accept a new cast and characters? Will Paramount? The discussion on Discovery and Star Wars on this forum lead me to believe that many still follow both franchises even though they are disenchanted with current screen incarnations. Others find the new adventures as good, if not better than those decades old. Is the name Star Trek big enough to attract an audience regardless of the quality? When will enough be enough and it's put away for good?

I have presented my case here before that Star Trek is a vast fictional universe with far more potential for big and small screen adventures that do not need to include Kirk and company, or try to fit within established cannon. My view is that you will never win trying to reconcile the discrepancies and are better off covering new ground. There are infinite combinations of ships and races in Star Trek to find a region of space where we don't encounter old foes. Voyager attempted this, but screwed it up by bringing along some old friends to the party. An entire ship run by Vulcans with one human on board would be a fun switch if you wanted to keep it relatable to what's been on before. I just don't have any interest in reboots anymore. Let's try to find new ways to explore the human adventure.

 

[Carabimero]

Star Trek has to change or it's going to die. I probably have thirty years left, if I'm lucky. When I and other fans of my generation go, a lot of love for TOS and Rick Berman's way of doing things will pretty much go with us. My personal opinion is, Star Trek should always be at its heart what Gene Roddenberry once told me ST was about: "Finding strength in our diversity as we relentlessly explore the unknown."

But who says if that's what other people think ST is, or if that's what it should be about? At what point does it stop being true ST, whatever that is (Roddenberry's definition works for me), and something with just a ST name on it?

I have mixed feelings about the Kelvin timeline movies, but they kept ST alive. I have mixed feelings about DISCOVERY, but ST is back on TV (kind of)! If nothing else, it's a spectacular show. Maybe that will be enough to spawn spinoffs and fill out a large-and-small screen ST universe, which is currently far too empty, IMHO.

 

[Sam Favate]

I think Gene Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek is what is needed now. With the country and the world as divided as it has been since the late 1960s, that vision of people of different backgrounds, races, genders, points of view all working together and using science and technology for a positive future for all people would be very welcome. I believe it would find a very receptive, broad audience.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

I think Gene Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek is what is needed now. With the country and the world as divided as it has been since the late 1960s, that vision of people of different backgrounds, races, genders, points of view all working together and using science and technology for a positive future for all people would be very welcome. I believe it would find a very receptive, broad audience.

Totally agree. There is so much dark material out in the entertainment world and media in general today that the shining light of optimism the original series shone with is needed more than ever.

 

[Carabimero]

Solely based on watching the JJverse movies, what does Abrams think ST is about? What do the creators of DISCOVERY think ST is about? I wonder what Rod Roddenberry, Gene's son, thinks ST is about.

Better yet, what do you think ST should be about? (edit: not rhetorical )