Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (10 Viewers)

[Bryan^H]

I absolutely hate that episode. And I know I'm in a minority. But it makes no sense.

I'm more bothered that the pacing of the episode feels like an eternity. Not my favorite episode that's for sure. I do love 'The Inner Light' and I have yet to find a person in my circle of friends and family that likes it too. And that is a fan favorite also. Taste is subjective.

 

[Carabimero]

How can a people who don't understand words construct metaphors? How can they make up a phrase "when the walls fell"? if the word "walls" has no meaning?

I always assumed the universal translator was working overtime in that episode....

I had the same objections until my wife said "Get over it and see how brilliant this is." Hahahaha.

 

[Blimpoy06]

I like Darmok. It was a rare attempt from Star Trek to deal with how difficult first contact would most likely be. A universal translator may discern language, but not the meaning. Flawless? No. But an "A" for effort at a stage where high concept stories were becoming a rarity on TNG. Similar to Enemy Mine at times. I appreciated the fact that the alien Captain was being proactive in trying to communicate and reach a rapport with Picard.
I'll get ready for the rock throwing, but I find The Inner Light to be slow, dull and not very entertaining. Same for The Visitor on DS9. I never liked the deus ex machina of a character who gets to live to old age and then get the magic reset button at the end of the story. I think DS9 did this a few times.

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

My head canon is that their species learns the spoken language but as they mature into adults, either their mental process or ideology forces them to exclusively use metaphors.

Kind of like when the writers of Family Guy can barely construct an episode without dozens of pop culture references. Or pretty much when any reboot show or movie comes along, it almost can't exist without tons of in-jokes, call-backs, winks and nods.

Perhaps one day we'll evolve into the Darmok species. Plus, woo-hoo, Ashley Judd's acting debut!

 

[Sam Favate]

Showed the boys Star Trek V this weekend. They said right away that it wasn't as good as ST IV, but they liked it. "It's as good as the first movie," one of them said, which was a compliment, since he liked the first movie.

I hadn't seen V in a while, and was struck by how dark many of the scenes were.

 

[Nelson Au]

I just saw a story in my Flipboard app that on November 18th, the Twilight Zone episode Nick of Time premiered. As you know, this was one of William Shatner’s early TV appearances. So we’ll have to find time to play that episode.

 

[Nelson Au]

Here’s another story from my Flipboard alerts, Star Trek 3 is a Thanksgiving movie. Happy Thanksgiving my fellow Star Trek fans and friends.

https://www.inverse.com/article/38684-star-trek-iii-best-thanksgiving-movie-search-spock-discovery

 

[Blimpoy06]

Does anyone else wish Discovery would have a battle between TOS era Federation Constitution Class Starships and Klingon D-7's? I had a fanboy moment when the fan made Phase II produced this almost 10 years ago for the David Gerrold penned "Blood and Fire".

 

[Nelson Au]

I finally had a chance to sit and watch Nick of Time and Nightmare at 20,000 Feet last night. These new blu rays of The Twilight Zone are really great. I found Nick of Time the more interesting to watch. I’ve seen Nightmare a lot of times over the decades of home video releases and it’s still a William Shatner favorite to see. He gives a really good unnerving performance. But I found it interesting to watch Shatner go from a normal guy to suddenly being pulled into the dark side of the Mystic Seer.

I’m really looking forward to the blu rays of The Outer Limits and to see how Warm Heart Cold Hands looks.

 

[TravisR]

I finally had a chance to sit and watch Nick of Time and Nightmare at 20,000 Feet last night. These new blu rays of The Twilight Zone are really great. I found Nick of Time the more interesting to watch.

If you're a fan of Mad Men, Matthew Weiner does an audio commentary on that episode.

 

[Nelson Au]

I am a fan of Mad Men and I did see Weiner did a commentary, I opted to watch the episode and save the commentary for later. I did wonder why Weiner did a commentary on this episode. Maybe I should check it out today though to find out!

Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Nelson Au]

Hey guys, thought I’d post a little about my attempt to find time to resume my 50th Anniversary viewings of TOS continuing with the second season 1967 to 1968.

I watched one of my favorite episodes, Metamorphosis. It was interesting as I haven’t seen this episode in at least a year or two, yet I still can almost remember all the dialogue and of course Kirk’s speech to convince The Companion that it cannot join with Cochran or love him. It’s a great sensitive episode.

I still think the Universal Translator is voiced by Elinor Donahue, but I realize it was by another actress. I could not help but notice the furniture and that great piece of art hanging on the wall of the string art. I have to identify those chairs in Cochran’s House.

But the big thing I was kind of surprised by was my interpretation of what the Companion did this time. In all the decades I’ve seen this episode, I’ve always accepted that the Companion joined with Commissioner Hedford so they are joined as one entity. So the Compnaion could understand human emotions and what it means to be human. But for the first time, I had the thought that Commissioner Hedford does actually die. She’s not there anymore, the Companion essentially is a body snatcher, that’s not a nice way to think of it. I prefer to think that the Companion and Hedford merged and became a new life form. So there is still a part of her in there, someone who never had love and now has it with Cochran. ( it’s kind of like Vina who has her faux Christopher Pike. ). And Hedford can show the Companion what it means to be human.

I don’t know what Gene Coon had in mind here, if Hedford does die or not. The Companion does say that in a moment there would have been no continuing for a Hedford. So I think the Companion joined Hedford just in time. And as Spock says, she does not have the power to create life. But the Companion does take Hedford’s body, though I think Hedford is in the mix and they are combined. But it was kind of interesting to examine the exchange beyond anywhere I’ve considered before.

It was also refreshing to see Star Trek TOS with the cast in their prime and contrasting it to Star Trek Beyond. For all the limitations TOS had in budget and effects technology, this episode and so many other TOS episodes shine brighter because of the stories and acting and originality it has at the time. I almost forgot, the George Duning score also enhances the episode. It was nice to cleanse the mind of all the Last Jedi flurry and debate going on in that thread!

Next up, I’d like to try to catch up with Who Mourns for Adonais, The Changling, and last month was the 50th anniversary telecast of Journey to Babel.

 

[KPmusmag]

Hey guys, thought I’d post a little about my attempt to find time to resume my 50th Anniversary viewings of TOS continuing with the second season 1967 to 1968.

I watched one of my favorite episodes, Metamorphosis. It was interesting as I haven’t seen this episode in at least a year or two, yet I still can almost remember all the dialogue and of course Kirk’s speech to convince The Companion that it cannot join with Cochran or love him. It’s a great sensitive episode.

I still think the Universal Translator is voiced by Elinor Donahue, but I realize it was by another actress. I could not help but notice the furniture and that great piece of art hanging on the wall of the string art. I have to identify those chairs in Cochran’s House.

But the big thing I was kind of surprised by was my interpretation of what the Companion did this time. In all the decades I’ve seen this episode, I’ve always accepted that the Companion joined with Commissioner Hedford so they are joined as one entity. So the Compnaion could understand human emotions and what it means to be human. But for the first time, I had the thought that Commissioner Hedford does actually die. She’s not there anymore, the Companion essentially is a body snatcher, that’s not a nice way to think of it. I prefer to think that the Companion and Hedford merged and became a new life form. So there is still a part of her in there, someone who never had love and now has it with Cochran. ( it’s kind of like Vina who has her faux Christopher Pike. ). And Hedford can show the Companion what it means to be human.

I don’t know what Gene Coon had in mind here, if Hedford does die or not. The Companion does say that in a moment there would have been no continuing for a Hedford. So I think the Companion joined Hedford just in time. And as Spock says, she does not have the power to create life. But the Companion does take Hedford’s body, though I think Hedford is in the mix and they are combined. But it was kind of interesting to examine the exchange beyond anywhere I’ve considered before.

It was also refreshing to see Star Trek TOS with the cast in their prime and contrasting it to Star Trek Beyond. For all the limitations TOS had in budget and effects technology, this episode and so many other TOS episodes shine brighter because of the stories and acting and originality it has at the time. I almost forgot, the George Duning score also enhances the episode. It was nice to cleanse the mind of all the Last Jedi flurry and debate going on in that thread!

Next up, I’d like to try to catch up with Who Mourns for Adonais, The Changling, and last month was the 50th anniversary telecast of Journey to Babel.

This has always been a favorite of mine. I thought Elinor Donahue was the voice of The Companion also. And my interpretation has always been that Companion and Hedford merged.

I so agree with your comments regarding the TOS limitations on budget - as I revisit favorite films and TV shows, if I find myself fully engaged by the story and acting, the lack of "impressive" CGI etc doesn't matter. On a similar note, the best production of the musical Gypsy I ever saw was in a black box theater with no scenery and only a few props.

 

[Nelson Au]

Here's an interview I found with Elinor Donahue from last year. She had some comments I wasn't aware of about her career.

http://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-elinor-donahue

And regarding Cochrane himself. I never liked the depiction in Star Trek TNG's film, First Contact. Of course his character could have been the way he was depicted in the film prior to ending up on the planetoid with the Companion. But it was such a departure.

 

[Nelson Au]

I carried on with Journey To Babel last night. It’s been a while since i’ve seen this episode too. With the original effects of course.

I realized that James Doohan wasn’t in this episode, nor was George Takei who was off in Georgia filming The Green Berets. Given the number of extras and guest stars and the make up needs and costume needs, this was really taxing the production. So it’s no surprise Doohan wasn’t needed.

The mother-son relationship was the heart of the episode that I really pulled from this viewing. Watching how pained Nimoy plays the scene with Amanda was interesting. I was even more struck this time by how emotional he gets, but he always had a way to play Spock with emotion, but to do it so subtly so it’s not so showy or obvious.

It was interesting to watch because I just read that interview with Donahue and how she mentioned how much Jane Wyatt loved Leonard Nimoy! And it’s terrific how this episode led to the other Sarak appearances later on as well as one more Amanda appearance in Star Trek 4.

It’s also great to see DeForest Kelley get to play McCoy. So fun to see he got the last word in this episode. .

 

[Blimpoy06]

I still think the Universal Translator is voiced by Elinor Donahue, but I realize it was by another actress

The voice of The Companion on the universal translator was provided by Elizabeth Rogers. She can be seen on screen in "The Doomsday Machine" and "The Way To Eden" as communications officer Lt. Palmer.

 

[Nelson Au]

Right. Elizabeth Roger’s voice is kind of similar sounding to Donahue after all the reverb is added along with her monotone delivery. So it seemed to make sense if Donahue was the voice which was always in my mind.

Well, i went with The Changling last night. No mistaking Vic Perrin’s voice for Nomad. It’s really fun rewatching the episodes. I know them back and forth and I for a time was listening to them everyday in my long commute to work in the car. But to sit and watch the episode was interesting. To see Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelley and Shatner at work is amazing. I can really see a multifaceted performance by Nimoy. I see pride and humor in his characterization. Plus he’s all in, 100%. Same with Shatner, he plays Kirk full-on. Kelley is interesting to watch again because I’m finding that he really does play McCoy with that gruff-ness that everyone always says he does. But I always saw the other side too. He was the conscience for Kirk and always gave Kirk that advice he needed. So I saw that calm side. So it bugs me somewhat that Karl Urban plays him a little too one sided, seemingly angry all the time. He came closer in Beyond. In the scene with the injured Spock was somewhat like the scene in Bread and Circuses where McCoy is needling Spock about loosing his control and letting his emotions peek out.

 

[Nelson Au]

And having rewatched Metamorphosis, I remembered a great blog that Ralph Senensky writes that covers the episodes he did on Star Trek. Worth looking at if you’re not familiar.

http://senensky.com/metamorphosis/

 

[benbess]

I carried on with Journey To Babel last night. It’s been a while since i’ve seen this episode too. With the original effects of course.

I realized that James Doohan wasn’t in this episode, nor was George Takei who was off in Georgia filming The Green Berets. Given the number of extras and guest stars and the make up needs and costume needs, this was really taxing the production. So it’s no surprise Doohan wasn’t needed.

The mother-son relationship was the heart of the episode that I really pulled from this viewing. Watching how pained Nimoy plays the scene with Amanda was interesting. I was even more struck this time by how emotional he gets, but he always had a way to play Spock with emotion, but to do it so subtly so it’s not so showy or obvious.

It was interesting to watch because I just read that interview with Donahue and how she mentioned how much Jane Wyatt loved Leonard Nimoy! And it’s terrific how this episode led to the other Sarak appearances later on as well as one more Amanda appearance in Star Trek 4.

It’s also great to see DeForest Kelley get to play McCoy. So fun to see he got the last word in this episode. .

Journey to Babel is one of the all-time great episodes. It was always a favorite of mine since I was a child, but about ten years ago, when my son was c. 11 (he's now 21) said it was his favorite of the whole series, I pretty much agreed with him—although I think there are c. 6-7 other episodes that are equally my "favorite."

Enjoying your reviews!

 

[Nelson Au]

I had time to view Who Mourns for Adonais? It’s interesting to note that I think it was Neil S Bulk or Jeff Bond or another of the team who worked on the Star Trek TOS soundtrack set said the title in an interview and it was the first time I heard Adonais pronounced! Maybe it was Jeff Bond because of his interviews and conversations with Fred Steiner.

I’ve had different feelings on this episode over the years. Not a top pick for me, but it is still memorable for many aspects. It’s got that great Fred Steiner score of course. I still buy into the idea of the ancient astronauts that might have visited earth at the time of the ancient Greeks and might have been the ones who were taken as gods. That’s always been an interesting idea. So the basic premise of the episode works and holds together.

On the surface, if you’re not paying close attention or just see clips and have no context, it appears silly on the surface to find an Ancient Greek temple and a guy who claims to be Apollo out in space. But the dialogue makes it clear it’s alien technology that’s creating the field that holds the Enterprise in orbit, not a giant hand. And Apollo says he was a group of aliens who came to visit Earth 5,000 years ago. They met the people of the earth at the time and had influenced and impressed them with their technology.

Today though, I looked back at the episode and thought about something I had not before because I now have the opportunity to look back on it with 50 years of change that’s occurred in our world and in how science fiction is presented on TV. We are looking at Star Trek that was produced at the time of Lost In Space and I Dream of Jeannie and Bewitched. So there was a certain aesthetic that was what they knew at the time. And how literal they took it was based on that frame of reference.

I was thinking had this exact same episode been produced today, or even in the 1980’s or 1990’s during the run of a Star Trek TNG, I think the idea of the Force field might have been done not has a hand, but as some other kind of effects. But even in 1967, they had other options. Perhaps a bubble enveloping the ship. And when we first meet Apollo, he may say he’s Apollo, but he might be really dressed as he would as his true alien self. Though humanoid, I was imagining more like Michael Rennie in The Day The Earth Stood Still. And through his transformational technology, change to appear like Apollo as we see him as a visual to show Kirk and crew what he appeared like to the ancient people on Earth. There would still be a structure made to look like a Greek temple, but more modern. Might make the episode be seen more seriously to a modern audience.

Though I’m not knocking the epsiode as it turned out. It’s still a classic and there is that classic gown by Theiss. It’s got another great speech from Kirk that convinces Carolyn where her priorities lie. Everyone has something to do too. Uhura working on the com panel, Spock trying to figure out how to get through the Force field. Sulu working the problem with Spock, Scotty going nuts over Carolyn and Chekov and his Russian inventions. And McCoy dispensing medical skills and wisdom. And one other thing that had not occurred to me before, Carolyn is seduced by the one thing she’s really into, ancient civilizations, kind of like how Marla McGivers is seduced by the ancient bold men of the past.