Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (1 Viewer)

[Carabimero]

Star Trek Continues, the best IMHO, is still making episodes, but they have announced an official ending to their series.

CBS released a set of fan film guidelines that basically said 1) don't use Star Trek in the title; 2) don't make your film longer than 15 minutes; and 3) you can only make one sequel to a movie (so no series).

Of course Fair Use has no hard and fast rules. Just four basic guidelines.

 

[ChromeJob]

The propmaster for Cawley's Star Trek New Voyages, Greg Schnitzer IIRC, was/is a regular on the Trep Prop Zone, and his article/threads on certain props, particularly the really obscure ones, were fascinating reading. (I haven't been active for a while, it was emptying my bank account!)[1] McCoy had some trombone mutes that would make Riker salivate. Many props were made from found objects/materials, and it's fun to see how Feinberg, Desilu prop makers, and Wah Chang cobbled them together.

There was one hand scanner that made a couple of appearances, then disappeared. I don't think anyone ever id'ed WTH that was made from.

Anyhoo, I know Cawley and his production were obsessive about accuracy, to a degree that I thought I heard ST: Enterprise consulted with them along with other fan/production/prop people from later shows.

Regarding coffee on the bridge.... Yeah, right, tell that to Yeoman Rand, that hand phaser-wielding, zap-instant coffee brewing, captain's personal assistant extraordinaire. When the bridge crew needs java, you don't tell 'em "no." (BTW, Greg did a story on those paper cups. No kidding.) I think it's a tragedy the Grace Lee Whitney didn't continue with the cast, she added talent for humor and humanity to the ensemble already overflowing with it. (Yeah, I know the back story, let's not rehash it.)

[1] https://www.yourprops.com/view_items.php?user_name=Interociter

 

[Nelson Au]

Hey David, yes I am aware of Greg Schnitzer. I corresponded with him a few years ago about a set of the chess pieces I found on eBay. I actually managed to get a set of the chess pieces that Charlie melted. . Though it's missing one pawn. I've considered trying to find the trombone mutes. Thanks for reminding me! Getting some Burke chairs would be cool too.

Nice collection of props by the way!

 

[Nelson Au]

Alan, those restrictions to the fan films are really restricting what the fans can do! I guess the new regime are really cracking down on the trademark/copyrights. That's too bad. If they are not making money off the films, I'd agree with the argument that the films only help to raise awareness of the franchise. On the other hand, maybe a casual or non fan wouldn't know the difference?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Alan, those restrictions to the fan films are really restricting what the fans can do! I guess the new regime are really cracking down on the trademark/copyrights. That's too bad. If they are not making money off the films, I'd agree with the argument that the films only help to raise awareness of the franchise. On the other hand, maybe a casual or non fan wouldn't know the difference?

I think this is all fallout from Axanar - I think before that, Paramount and CBS were very happy to ignore whatever was going on in the background. But Axanar asked for and raised over a million dollars - that's no longer "fan film" territory. The Axanar staff also repeatedly lashed out at Paramount's theatrical Trek movies, saying that they weren't real Star Trek. They all but encouraged fans to ignore the official Paramount films, and promoted their efforts as the first "independent" Trek movie. In my view, they went way too far, and CBS/Paramount had no choice but to put down formal guidelines to not only shut them down, but to prevent something similar from happening again.

 

[Sam Favate]

The article also says this:

When Cawley talks about the future of the show, he gets emotional.
"I never thought we would be able to pull it off," he says. "For me, it's about 'How do I maintain it? How do I keep it going?' I think a big piece of me would die if it were to go away."

 

[Nelson Au]

Hey Josh, I had Axanar in mind and I am not be surprised at all if this is fall out from what the Axanar people were doing. I knew they were really pushing the limits but I hadn't been paying too much attention to what they were doing as they really put me off. So it's a surprise they went so far as to denounce the Paramount films. That's really biting the hand.

So does this mean that the James Cawley Star Trek Phase II/New Voyages productions are shut down now? I was a little confused as I did some checking. Alan, as you mentioned the Star Trek Continues series, I looked into those. A few years ago I had only seen one of their films, the one with Apollo who returns. It wasn't too bad and the new actor playing Kirk is a real actor. And they have Chris Doohan playing Scotty. What confuses me is if the films are or had merged. But it looks like Continues has their own stages and sets in another state from Cawley's New York sets. I kept thinking at one point one group joined forces with the other. It could be the Continues group merged with another group, called Farragut IIRC. Building those sets is a pretty big commitment! More so that two indie groups did that.

In 2006 I saw the New Voyages film with Walter Keonig guest starring which wasn't bad either. But on the whole, I don't follow these projects much.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Hey Josh, I had Axanar in mind and I am not be surprised at all if this is fall out from what the Axanar people were doing. I knew they were really pushing the limits but I hadn't been paying too much attention to what they were doing as they really put me off. So it's a surprise they went so far as to denounce the Paramount films. That's really biting the hand.

Yeah, that was my impression as well - they were really biting the hand that fed them, and I frankly found a lot of their PR to be insulting. I'm a longtime Star Trek fan - about 25 years. In that time, I've loved the original series, the original cast movies, the Next Generation show and movies, the other spin-offs, and the new reboot movies - I've enjoyed it all. So when the Axanar people started mocking the new Trek movies and attacking the audience that liked them as part of that mocking, I started getting a feeling of "these are not people who I want to lend any sympathy too."

They also were profiting off of their endeavor, and that's a big no-no in fan productions. The allegation is that they used crowdfunded money to build sets and a studio, but then turned around and rented out those sets and the studio for profit to third party producers. Essentially, it seems that they used the "Star Trek" name (which they do not own) to set themselves up as a for-profit studio business that just so happened to be making a free Star Trek fan movie while they were at it.

And the list of shady stuff keeps going on and on. But the basic thing that no one involved in that production seems to grasp is that they don't own Star Trek - CBS/Paramount does. They talk over and over about fair use (and I don't think what they're doing really qualifies as "fair use" anyway) but there's zero acknowledgment that they're playing in somebody else's sandbox. Their writings come across as if they feel they have a birthright to do this. To that, my response is simply, I've been a Star Trek fan most of my life, but I don't feel that that gives me any intrinsic ownership over the property.

By publicly stating over and over again that they were making an independent movie, and that what they were doing was real Star Trek, while the J.J. Abrams films were not real Star Trek, they poisoned the well and put CBS/Paramount in a position where they had to respond. Everyone else who makes fan films should be upset with Axanar in my view. I'm not a big fan of the whole fan film genre in the first place, but I could respect that the New Voyages and Continues people were working on labors of love and seem to have taken steps to show respect for the copyrights they've been able to use. James Cawley, for instance, has since gotten official licensing to show off his sets. And the Star Trek Continues people, after the first episode which was a direct sequel to Who Mourns For Adonis, were asked by CBS/Paramount to not directly use previous characters and stories like that anymore, and they respected that once they were asked. By contrast, the Axanar people seem to have an attitude of, "You can't tell us anything! We know more about Star Trek than you!"

 

[Carabimero]

The word I got unofficially about fan films was, "As long as you are respectful of Star Trek being our property and don't trade on our marks, we don't care. But if we ask you to stop, then stop."

Axanar broke both these rules, and did so willfully.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The word I got unofficially about fan films was, "As long as you are respectful of Star Trek being our property and don't trade on our marks, we don't care. But if we ask you to stop, then stop."

Axanar broke both these rules, and did so willfully.

Yeah.

I mean, at the point where Star Trek Continues was asked not to do direct sequels/prequels to existing material, years before Axanar began... why was Axanar even trying to do a prequel to a specific episode when CBS/Paramount had already clearly established that they weren't allowing such projects? It seems like the Axanar crew was acting in bad faith from the start.

 

[Carabimero]

They built a movie studio with fan money earmarked for non-profit Trek and were intent on using the studio for other projects. Profits were being made off their donor incentive gifts. CBS told them to stop. They didn't. Their arrogant leader has led them to ruin. I feel for all the fans who got duped.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

They built a movie studio with fan money earmarked for non-profit Trek and were intent on using the studio for other projects. Profits were being made off their donor incentive gifts. CBS told them to stop. They didn't. Their arrogant leader has led them to ruin. I feel for all the fans who got duped.

I was thoroughly disgusted when I first read about that. The Axanar crew seems to have violated each and every stipulation that's ever been part of making fan fiction films, whether more general guidelines like the work having to be non-professional and non-profit, to more specific Trek/CBS/Paramount guidelines about not making direct prequels/sequels to existing stories. The arrogance on display, to this day, about the lawsuit is astonishing. Over and over, they cry "fair use!" but I keep thinking of that quote from Princess Bride about that word (or phrase) not meaning what they think it means. Fair use means that your local news station can show a clip of Spock when making an announcement that Leonard Nimoy died; fair use is the author of the making-of book "Return To Tomorrow" using interviews with Trek filmmakers that mention terms copyrighted or trademarked by CBS/Paramount as part of scholarly research. Fair use is not taking a trademarked and copyrighted creation, making your own version of it, and selling it for profit. Fan fiction in general is not "fair use" - it's user generated material that the copyright owners have elected to turn a blind eye to. I'm no lawyer, but it would seem that the Axanar folks don't have a leg to stand on and never did, and are simply trying to obscure what the actual issue here is. Unfortunately, in doing so, they've ruined it for literally everyone else who ever participated in a Trek fan film or who might have ever wanted to.

 

[Carabimero]

If their leader had simply said, "Yes we overstepped, we're stopping, and we're going to return the donations," all would have been forgiven.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

If their leader had simply said, "Yes we overstepped, we're stopping, and we're going to return the donations," all would have been forgiven.

I don't doubt that in the least - without personally knowing any of the players involved, the Axanar folks haven't come across as reasonable since the beginning, while CBS/Paramount has struck me as being exceedingly patient. Something tells me that Paramount's official Facebook page didn't fill up with people saying "I'm not seeing Star Trek Beyond cause it sucks and Axanar is great and you're terrible" on its own

 

[Carabimero]

I have seen it happen too much in this business--someone who is incredibly talented but a victim of their own ego. They self-destruct because they can't admit a mistake. There are few things sadder.

 

[Nelson Au]

There's been so many fan and professional attempts at making a Star Trek project from crowdfunding. I used to follow a YouTube channel of Steve Neill and he's a make-up artist and model maker. His biggest claim to fame was actually making the ears for Leonard Nimoy in Star Trek The Motion Picture. Steve did the Vulcan ears again for another actress for a crowd funded film called Star Trek: Equinox staring John Savage and Gary Lockwood! They wrote the script and tried to get funding in 2014 but failed to get funded. That film would have violated a lot of the new stipulations from Paramount. John Savage would star as Voyager's Captain Ransom so it's a sort of sequel. Lockwood would be Gary Mitchell. He and Lockwood are in the TOS era though. Kind of odd. At any rate, I know I'm making a bit if a non sequitur. But mostly I'm saying seems to have been so many fan films, it's tough to keep track of them all. So it's amazing that Axanar was able to get so much money.

 

[Carabimero]

There's been so many fan and professional attempts at making a Star Trek project from crowdfunding. I used to follow a YouTube channel of Steve Neill and he's a make-up artist and model maker. His biggest claim to fame was actually making the ears for Leonard Nimoy in Star Trek The Motion Picture. Steve did the Vulcan ears again for another actress for a crowd funded film called Star Trek: Equinox staring John Savage and Gary Lockwood! They wrote the script and tried to get funding in 2014 but failed to get funded. That film would have violated a lot of the new stipulations from Paramount. John Savage would star as Voyager's Captain Ransom so it's a sort of sequel. Lockwood would be Gary Mitchell. He and Lockwood are in the TOS era though. Kind of odd. At any rate, I know I'm making a bit if a non sequitur. But mostly I'm saying seems to have been so many fan films, it's tough to keep track of them all. So it's amazing that Axanar was able to get so much money.

One of the CBS guidelines I left off was "No industry professional should be contributing to a fan film." IMHO, that's why Axanar got so much money. Several Star Trek alumni were contributing to it. It freaking looked fantastic and, believe it or not, what I saw rivaled BEYOND. It's nonsense to say the studio was insecure about that so they pulled the plug; it was absolutely about Axanar trading on their marks. Even so, Axanar would have been glorious.

 

[Nelson Au]

The Organians raided the game!

 

[Carabimero]

I couldn't believe my ears when Abrams opened his mouth about an ongoing legal matter. This is a perfect example of why the first thing they told me the first time I ever signed a NDA was "don't comment on ongoing legal matters."

http://www.cinemablend.com/news/156...ng-to-pull-jj-abrams-and-justin-lin-in-deeper

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I couldn't believe my ears when Abrams opened his mouth about an ongoing legal matter. This is a perfect example of why the first thing they told me the first time I ever signed a NDA was "don't comment on ongoing legal matters."

http://www.cinemablend.com/news/156...ng-to-pull-jj-abrams-and-justin-lin-in-deeper

Though it hasn't been confirmed by anyone, I'm not convinced that CBS/Paramount was upset with Axanar over Star Trek Beyond -- I think Star Trek Discovery would be the bigger conflict. Axanar is supposed to be set a couple decades before TOS. Discovery is supposed to be set a couple decades before TOS. If CBS/Paramount was drawn to suing Axanar because it was too close to something, it's gotta be Discovery, not Beyond.

I bet Abrams was asked the question during a Star Wars press junket or something where he didn't have all the facts in front of him, and accepted a question that seemed in favor of Axanar. If Abrams had been told, "Hey, there are these guys illegally raising millions, trying to profit off of the company's copyright, and is telling fans that Trek produced by Paramount isn't real" before given a chance to answer, I bet he would have had a different answer.