Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (4 Viewers)

[FanCollector]

Apparently.

 

[Nelson Au]

It's a first season episode.

 

[FanCollector]

It's The Devil in the Dark! I just wasn't thinking.

 

[Nelson Au]

That's it! Kirk negotiates a Modus Vivendi between the Horta and her children and the Janus miners. That was a good one and a big turn around for Kirk as he realizes the Horta isn't such a monster.About the discussion the other day, it certainly will be interesting to contrast Shatner's portrayal from the early first season to the end given his thinking of putting more of himself into the role. I agree Lee, this shall inform my viewing! For example, I always thought Balance of Terror feels like Kirk is different. And I read through the first half of the Friday's Child chapter up through casting. Yes, as you said, Roddenberry's desire for the show was to show people as positive really changed the way Fontana saw Eleen. And I like how he described Maab as not a villain, but as a principled guy living by the laws of their tribe. Also surprising is James Doohan being called the unofficial fourth lead, I have never heard that. Also Doohan saying that he felt Scott really belongs in engineering doing engineering stuff.

 

[FanCollector]

The early Shatner performances are mostly excellent, but maybe there is a more...relaxed feel as the season progresses? I always attributed it to Coon's writing (and rewriting) rather than Roddenberry's voice alone dominating, but maybe Shatner's conscious choice to layer more of himself onto Kirk contributes to that sense also. The way he relates to Spock is particularly different, although that may also partly spring from the difference in Nimoy's performance. I think "unofficial fourth lead" is just Cushman's description, but it is apt. Once he became the regular substitute captain, he really doubled his importance because if Kirk and Spock are still on the ship, then you can cut to Scott in engineering and if they are off the ship, then you can cut to Scott on the bridge. When you get to Wolf in the Fold, you will see more evidence that Scott (and Doohan) was viewed as a special case among the supporting cast.I have a 1975 convention magazine that features an interview with Doohan in which he says he liked being "in command," but thought of the character first and foremost in engineering. In 1975 or the 1990s (when he wrote that in his memoir), he had the luxury of comparison, but I'm sure he never complained in the 60s about having more screen time and a more interesting characterization by taking over the bridge so often! And as a viewer, I personally think he generally got much better parts when he was in command than when he was in engineering. (Yes, there are a few exceptions to that rule.)

 

[Nelson Au]

In looking at the first 8 or so episodes, Kirk is a hard nosed one! I hadn't tried to analyze it before. Whether it was Roddenberry's Horatio Hornblower in mind, or some thing Coon introduced, or Shatner, it was probably a mix. I felt that Kirk in Balance of Terror wasn't as hard nosed, and a little more relaxed as you say. The scene I find that true in is when Stiles talks about a spy on board and Sulu recommending Security Alert and Kirk takes their input into consideration and agrees. But he will put his foot down when he sees Stiles acting like a bigot.

 

[FanCollector]

For me, the differences in Shatner's Kirk start to become noticeable in the Court Martial/The Menagerie/Shore Leave continuum. But the performance entirely becomes the more familiar one several episodes later. In fact, although I frequently tend to overlook Tomorrow is Yesterday as not having much significance at all, in light of this discussion, it has a good case for being a major transitional moment for Shatner's performance. Perhaps playing a lighter story "freed up" some of the things Shatner wanted to do, which he uses in the much heavier, more serious stories that follow.The beauty of it is that Shatner's choices generally went in the direction of making Kirk more comfortable in his surroundings and less on edge, except when there were specific circumstances requiring that edginess. Thus, the changes in Kirk don't undermine the character; like most of us, he got more comfortable in a job after having it for a longer time.I wonder how aware Roddenberry was of Shatner's artistic decision. That memo we discussed from the end of the second season referred to getting Kirk back to the way he started--less friendly, less inclined to smile, always isolated by command...in other words, getting Kirk back to the way he was portrayed before Shatner says he added himself to the character.I know it's my turn. Thinking of a question.

 

[Nelson Au]

Lee, great insights and I'll watch for those changes in those episodes. I agree, he seems looser and comfortable with the job in episodes after Shore Leave. He certainly got to play a range in Shore Leave. I almost forgot that lines in Friday's Child that were almost atypical. Where Spock is doubtful of success, Kirk goads Spock by saying maybe we shouldn't try then. He did that in City on The Edge of Forever, so there must be a Coon connection there. Looking forward to the next brain testing question!

 

[FanCollector]

Or a Fontana one. Kirk manipulating Spock and Spock manipulating Kirk in lighthearted ways that work even though each is aware of what the other is doing is kind of a staple of that late-first-season-to-early-second-season of the show, but it disappears after that. Kirk continues to do it to McCoy, however, for some time to come. ("If you'd rather stay here...")

 

[Nelson Au]

I sometimes expect too much from you. This is fun realizing all these connections. I always enjoy the shows, but I never sat down to note specific characteristics of the characters.

 

[FanCollector]

Since we just finished a question about diplomacy, let's look at the other side of the coin. Can you name all the episodes in which the Enterprise uses its phasers or photon torpedoes. (Not hand phasers; ship's weapons only please.)Nelson, as a series with strictly self-contained episodes, Star Trek lends itself very well to watching in random order. But thinking of the series as a chronological progression does sometimes show changes in characterization, which I notice more now than I did first watching them on TV in whatever order popped up.

 

[Ockeghem]

I'll start us off.

Balance Of Terror
Patterns Of Force
The Doomsday Machine
Day Of the Dove

 

[FanCollector]

All good ones!

 

[Nelson Au]

Mr. Bailey! Fire phasers! The Corbomite Maneuver.And then there was that cowboy diplomacy again on Apollo's temple, Who Mourns for Adonais. And Kirk's "Obsession" with the cloud.Vaal in The Apple got a treat of some phaser fire. And then the Enterprise took some potshots at Nomad in The Changling, Elaan didn't understand why Kirk didn't finish off the Klingons in Elaan of Troyius. Lee, for the majority of my viewings of Star Trek, it's always been either broadcast order, or random as when it was syndicated. So yes, watching in production order is very enlightening.

 

[FanCollector]

Broadcast order is pretty close for these purposes, although there are a few especially significant changes, e.g. Balance of Terror, Elaan of Troyius, and Bread and Circuses.6 to 4 for Nelson so far.

 

[Nelson Au]

The Alternative Factor saw a never before seen angle of the Enterprise's phasers firing. The Enterprise made a hit on Krako's men who were trying to hit on Oxmyx' place. A Piece of The Action.The Tholians got hit as did the asteroid in The Paradise Syndrome.

 

[FanCollector]

10 to 4. Still several more to go, though.

 

[Nelson Au]

You'll be the fox in the hunt....the Ultimate Computer saw heavy phaser usage.Our missiles utterly destroyed them! Patterns of Force.The big hollow ball of Yonada shot missiles at the Enterprise which the Enterprise destroyed with phaser fire. For The World Is Hollow And I have Touched The Sky.

 

[FanCollector]

Scott started us off with Patterns of Force, but your other new citations are correct.12 to 4. I have either 6 or 8 answers left, depending on how you interpret things.

 

[Nelson Au]

Okay, a slip of that tongue!The trigger's been pulled. Errand of Mercy saw the Enterprise return fire on a Klingon ship.Sulu is an experienced combat officer. Arena.