Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (3 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Lee, I found one and will watch it later tonight.I'm still working on Sulu's none bridge appearances. No clues yet please. I was listening to Gamesters of Triskelion and I wondered if Sulu's lines were rewritten for Chekov. Because this particular episode has those great little comedic touches with Bea Arthur. . Can't imagine it with Sulu unless if Sulu was in it, his bits may have been as serious as Uhura's. Or maybe Ensign Haynes wouldn't be on the bridge. And Chekov benefited again in Obsession.

 

[FanCollector]

The outline and earliest versions of Triskelion did feature Sulu rather than Chekov. Not sure how much of the actual dialogue was written with Sulu in mind. Typically the Chekov stuff leaned more toward comedy, so you're probably right about the tone of those scenes being different had Sulu stayed in the story.The other way Koenig benefited consistently was by Chekov being used as the relief science officer. On several occasions when Spock was elsewhere, Chekov got better lines and more to do than his fellow bridge personnel.

 

[Nelson Au]

This service requires Sulu's presence! The Thoilian Web, if it wasn't already named. You must have read the outline information in the second volume of Cushman's book. I have to place my pre-order at my next convenience.

 

[FanCollector]

Right! You mentioned it for the last question, but not for this one. One left.Cushman does detail the evolution of it, but I had read about Sulu's inclusion before because George Takei cites The Gamesters of Triskelion as one of the scripts (along with Tribbles) that he most regretted missing in his absence.

 

[Nelson Au]

Were those Takei comments from his book? I read it a long time ago.I just saw the Super Password where Nichelle and Karen were really killing it! Too bad Karen had to change partners. Nichelle was very good with the clues! Okay, one more.

 

[FanCollector]

He does mention it in his book. Allan Asherman also describes some of the changes in the Star Trek Compendium.

 

[Nelson Au]

I'm still working on that last Sulu non-bridge appearance. I'm wondering if it's via the briefing room view screen in Friday's Child. But I doubt that's it. In other news, I saw a thread that William Shatner's Barbary Coast is coming to DVD. I recall it vaguely in 1975. It wasn't long for this world.

 

[FanCollector]

No, nothing tricky. He really is somewhere else in this last example. I have always wanted to see Barbary Coast. It seems like a fun idea and I like both Shatner and Doug McClure. Did you watch it? Or just recall it being on TV?

 

[Nelson Au]

Okay Lee, I'll keep looking for that last Sulu example.Regarding The Barbary Coast, I definitely remember seeing the pilot film and probably a few episodes. But I don't remember anything specific in terms of plots. I do recall Shatner was playing the Rollin Hand/Artemus Gordon role. He was in disguise often doing his crime fighting. And that's about all I can recall. It felt like a western version of Mission: Impossible and some Wild Wild West thrown in. I am very curious about the DVD release and will keep it on my radar. By the way, Scott, thanks for your comments about Agents of Shield in that thread. That's a vast universe alright and I'm not going to try to understand it all.

 

[Nelson Au]

I'm still working my way through the second season. I had a look at The Changling, because I know Sulu takes Uhura to sick bay. But we don't see that, he just gets on and off the turbo lift. And in The Ultimate Computer, he's on the bridge the whole time I think.It's amazing in that Lee, you already once mentioned the number of episodes Takei missed while in Georgia. I never usually watch the episodes in production order and I'm doing that more and more and this question really makes that clear.I'll still keep at it!

 

[FanCollector]

I don't want to spoil the last answer, but once you get it, I definitely had some surprises regarding the use of Sulu in the series, both throughout it and at various stages, in thinking up the question. And yes, he missed nine in a row doing The Green Berets. I remember watching the show in syndication in the late 70s and early 80s and, at least in my market, they didn't air them in either production order or airdate order; they were mostly random. So things like Takei's prolonged absence didn't register at that time. He wasn't in every episode anyway, so those just blended into the whole. I knew the order the episodes had been produced and aired from reading books, but had never watched them that way. It was only later that his long furlough became obvious in watching the shows.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks for not spoiling! Now you have me intrigued about what you discovered about Sulu. By the way, I didn't mean to not comment on your thoughts of the use of Chekov. He was definitely comic relief and as you mentioned used whenever he had to do some science stuff. And in the case of Ultimate Computer, he also did Spock's bidding by checking the displays on the bridge. Probably why he's made out to be a genius in the alternate universe.

 

[Nelson Au]

"Sulu, I've brought your tray."The Man Trap? I was looking at the previous answers that Scott gave and I don't think I see it there unless I'm being blinded by some force. If not, then that was a big one!

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,Wow, I think you're right about it being The Man Trap!

 

[FanCollector]

May the Great Bird of the Galaxy bless your answer. The Man Trap is right! I kept checking to see if Scott had already said it also. Scott did win the question, but Nelson made it close.What surprised me in compiling the list was how often we saw Sulu out and about. He was in 50+ episodes and off the bridge in 21 of them, or roughly 40%. He certainly spends a lot of time on the bridge, but he wasn't as chained to the helm console as the popular conception indicates. Also, breaking it down, he was seen off the bridge 11 times in the first season, including in five of the first six episodes. It shows, I would argue, that the concept of the series was more inclusive at the start, as the supporting players were promised. The focus shifted in the execution over time, but that first season did offer more to Sulu especially. (I don't intend to give away too much of Cushman's Season Two book, but one theory he proposes is that some of the dramatic focus on the stars was budgetary. He reports that the transporter effect cost over $800 per actor in the shot. Given the diminishing episode budgets in the second and third seasons, he suggests that it may have made the writers question whether they needed many characters besides Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in the landing party. To put it in perspective, it cost more to show Sulu beaming down than it cost to hire George Takei for the entire episode.)The Abrams concept of Chekov doesn't seem to reflect the Koenig portrayal much, but do you remember that memo we linked to here last year? In which Roddenberry wrote about plans for the various characters in the upcoming third season? There were hints in there that Chekov was intended to be some kind of prodigy at one stage in the character's development. I don't know (and kind of doubt) that Abrams and the others considered that in their process, but it's interesting that they ended up in that same place with him.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee,

The tidbit about the cost of the transporter effect is fascinating, especially when compared to the cost for Sulu to be in an entire episode. I would never have thought this to be the case.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Lee for the elaboration on Sulu. That's really interesting and clears up one of my long time questions.What has had me wondering recently was exactly what you touched on. I have on several occasions felt Sulu was written as a character, along with Uhura and Scott, as important to show the future has overcome racial issues. And the early shows as you said did have those characters very involved in the stories. I always wondered because Sulu was shown in command several times, why Scott took that role later. That of course has nothing to do with your point. Sulu was in the landing party quite often and the idea that it cost more to do the transporter effect then to hire the actor is amazing! The question of why Scott was in command when Kirk was off the ship is another matter! Great question in the end Lee! I'll be pre-ordering the book tonight.

 

[FanCollector]

I was amazed also...More perspective? $810 per actor shown beaming and DeForest Kelley's first season salary was $850 per episode. Can you imagine being Bob Justman and reading all kinds of first drafts in which you see a whole six-person landing party beam down from the transporter room and then materialize on the planet? That would cost $9720, which would be about 6% of an entire episode budget in the latter part of the series.

Nelson, I suspect that Sulu's diminished significance was partly the result of dramatic choices overriding the idealism that led to his inclusion in the first place. Scott first took command in The Return of the Archons presumably because Sulu could not, given his condition in the story. I think that effectively served as an audition for Doohan and the character and the producers simply preferred that dynamic. They also weren't alone. Memos from NBC representative Stan Robertson in the Cushman chapter on Wolf in the Fold directly state a preference for Doohan as an actor and for more focus on the Scotty character, as opposed to other supporting cast members. (The context was a discussion of whether or not to change the murder suspect in that episode from Sulu to Scott. So just as Takei lost his first season love story to Nimoy, he lost his second season murder accusation to James Doohan.) Sulu did get two more chances to be in command in Errand of Mercy and The Omega Glory. But notice that both of those episodes had saved money by not including Scott at all. Furthermore, they are episodes in which there is almost no cutting back and forth to the Enterprise, which may explain why they didn't bother to hire James Doohan for those weeks. In any case, there is no doubt that after the first season, Scott was far and away the most privileged supporting character in terms of screen time, variety of material to play, and number of episodes in which he appears.

 

[FanCollector]

Also, with regard to our earlier discussion of The Gamesters of Triskelion, Sulu survived four complete script drafts in that one. He was supposed to be back in time to film it, but delays on The Green Berets kept him away for a full additional month and there was no way they were going to hold the script for him, so as filming approached, Lucas changed Sulu to Chekov.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee and Nelson,

Your observations and insights into TOS are truly remarkable at times.

Not that I was on the fence with this, but I will be getting the Cushman book once it's a three-volume set. And it must needs be a three-volume set.