Science graduates live long and prosper (1 Viewer)

[Max Leung]

Science graduates live long and prosper
.

arts students had greatest risk of contracting lung cancer or a cardiovascular disease.

I'd guess that many young people living in Montreal are arts students...I've seen more smoke come out of their mouths than the oil refineries here in Alberta!

I wonder how long people that participate in movie discussions live...hmmm probably pretty long -- unless of course they participate in drinking games watching John Woo or Michael Bay films!

How old was Kubrick when he bit the bucket?

 

[John Miles]

Seems that smoking, just by itself, could account for the difference.

 

[JustinCleveland]

John...

Man, I can't believe a correlational study was published about SCIENCE people. Whatever happened to hard data? Hell, I was one of those "art kids," and I know better than to publish a weak conclusion like that!

 

[Max Leung]

Heh, I think the point was, even the science and medical students that smoked decided to quit after graduation because they knew how bad it is, while the artsy-fartsy students didn't know (or didn't care -- those rebels!) and thus didn't quit.

Hey -- you guys that quit smoking, what kind of education background did you have? Science, Art, Medical, Engineering, etc.?

Maybe we can do an informal survey here and see if it matches the study's results.

 

[Edwin_C]

sheiiiiiiiiiit... i still smoke hahah. i graduated as bme and in the fall i'm going to medical school for my md/phd, so i guess i'm a contradiction to your statement.

 

[JustinCleveland]

See... standard deviation shows itself, leading to the conclusion the study is flawed. 'Nuff said.

 

[Max Leung]

Nope not at all...Edwin is still technically in school.

Besides, a cursory understanding of statistics would show you that you will always have people at the ends of the curve.

For example, violent crime is almost always committed by men, but you will always have a few women doing them too...but it is very rare. The news, of course, picks up on it as if it happens every day.

 

[John Watson]

It's not how long we live, it's the quality of our lives.

 

[Max Leung]

So, why would anyone smoke then? Although I love the pretty pictures they put on Canadian cigarette packs. Oooh look, this is what happens to a fetus when you smoke during pregnancy! How very modern art!

 

[MarkHastings]

according to a survey of men attending university between 1948 and 1968.

Ummmm, does anyone realize it's 2003?

To say that "arts students had greatest risk of contracting lung cancer" back in the 50's and 60's is a bit different than todays arts students. I generally find that artsy people don't like smoking.

 

[John Watson]

A lot of the third rate thinking behind the second hand smoke hysteria is only persuasive to people who can't think for themselves or who like being bullied by do-gooders.

Personally, I think bars and businesses, after a modicum of reasonable public health regulation, should be able to choose if they wish to cater for smokers or non-smokers, and carry on if profit margins warrant.

Myself? Arts-philosophy education, quit puffing 20 years ago. The damage done since then is due to internal combustion engines, smog, and far too many plastics and synthetics in our environment.

And I hope Warren Zevon does his last album without an anti-smoking pitch

 

[MarkHastings]

I just got back from lunch where I sat between two smoking co-workers. Now that I am back at my desk, all I smell is stale smoke :frowning: That should be more than enough reason than the 2nd hand theory.

 

[Angelo.M]

Ah... With all the years I spent studying science (in addition to a 'healthy' portion of the arts) in college, medical school and post-graduate training, I now expect to live well past 150...

 

[Max Leung]

Hey John, you should visit a bar in Montreal! The smoke was so thick in the clubs I went to that I almost had an asthma attack -- and I never had asthma before!

I avoid bars and clubs now like the plague...the smoke gets into everything -- my hair, my clothes, my skin...yuck! And my eyes start burning after an hour. I'd rather hang out with cats -- there is nothing a cat can do about its dander, so I put up with the allergies.

Oh yes, and my friend and her brother were almost not permitted into Canada because health officials thought they had tuberculosis -- x-rays showed black lungs. But guess what, it was second-hand smoke because their father was a heavy smoker! Once they got their father to smoke outside, their lungs cleared up in several weeks. Scary. Granted, maybe the cigarettes were a particularly nasty brand, but still...

 

[Brian Harnish]

I'd better have my lungs checked...both my mom and stepdad are heavy smokers, and I'm around them all the time, sooo...

Anyway, I've always wondered how much breathing improves for those who have quit smoking? Would anyone (who has quit) care to field that one?

 

[Jason_H]

To say that "arts students had greatest risk of contracting lung cancer" back in the 50's and 60's is a bit different than todays arts students. I generally find that artsy people don't like smoking.

But they have been studying these people for the past fifty years, that is the only way they could get data on longevity! You obviously can't study students from 1993 to 2003 and gain any kind of insight as to what diseases they will develop or how long they will live 40 years into the future.

 

[MarkHastings]

Jason, I know what you're saying, but what I was reffering to was the fact that the research sounds biased. It's like they're trying to say that art students have a greater risk of lung cancer. Shouldn't it be, people who smoke have a greater risk for lung cancer?

What does being an art student have to do with it?

 

[Angelo.M]

I've always wondered how much breathing improves for those who have quit smoking?

If you look at pathologic specimens from individuals who have quit, the lung parenchyma looks healthier than it does in pack-year-matched non-quitters. This is my anecdotal observation.

In terms of breathing: if the parenchyma and airways get healthier, then breathing mechanics ought to improve somewhat, if not linearly.

So, it's never too late to quit, at least in terms of reducing tar deposit and other macroscopic damage to the tissue. In terms of microscopic damage and cancer... well, that's the $64,000 question, because it may be the first drag, or the last, that sets up metastatic cell growth.

 

[Max Leung]

Mark, I think the point of the study was to correlate health with education. They just found that smoking was the common denominator after they compiled the data. Or so we assume anyways! Maybe their study was secretly funded by a fanatical anti-smoking group. Or maybe they really are unbiased.

Metastatic cell growth -- is that like cancerous growth?

 

[Angelo.M]

Max: Yes.