Schindler's List : English subtitles ??

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Edgler Vess, Apr 28, 2004.

  1. Edgler Vess

    Edgler Vess Extra

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    Hi

    I would like to buy the R1 Collector's Gift Set ( it´s a lot cheaper than the R2 ) but for me it´s absolutely essential the english subtitles.

    Does anybody know if Schindler's List
    has English subtitles ( not Closed Captions) ?

    Some sites refer to " English Closed Captions " ,
    others just " English subtitles".

    Could anyone check the actual discs and not just check the cover information ...

    So ...please,

    Can anyone play the disc on a TV using a standalone DVDplayer and select Captioned for the Hearing Impaired - English ?

    Are the subs on the bottom of the frame?

    thanks in advance

    edgler
     
  2. ZacharyTait

    ZacharyTait Cinematographer

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    I just checked my Schindler's List DVD and there is no English subtitles, but there is closed captioning in English for the Hearing Impaired, which as far as I know not only displays the words being spoken but also describes in a few words whats going onscreen as well as who is speaking the words.

    I also checked the placement of the closed captioning and when it is one line being shown it doesn't intrude into the picutre, and when it is two lines the top line will be at the very bottom of the picture. The closed captioning is in white, in case you wanted to know that.
     
  3. Nathan*W

    Nathan*W Screenwriter

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    Closed Captions and Subtitles are two different things.

    Closed Captions are part of the video signal and provide onscreen information for the hearing impared which can include sound effect info ([phone rings] [music playing] etc.) and are turned on and off using your TV controls.

    Subtitles are part of the DVD authoring process and usually just include dialog info, and not sound effects, (though SE are sometimes included) and are turned on and off using your DVD player controls.

    I can confirm that the R1 Schindler's List DVD has English Subtitles. I can't confirm Captioning information but I assume it's there as well. And yes, if your DVD player is properly setup for a 4:3 display, the subtitles are shown at the bottom of the frame, ie. in the black area below a widescreen presentation. If the player is setup for 16:9, the subs will be in the frame.

    [EDIT] I don't know where you got your disc Zachary, but mine does have subtitles, and I can access them both from the menu and on the fly. I got my disc from an east coast US distributor.
     
  4. Edgler Vess

    Edgler Vess Extra

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    Thanks for both replies .

    Nathan,

    Did you select Captioned for the Hearing Impaired - English in the menu ?
     
  5. Nathan*W

    Nathan*W Screenwriter

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    Yes, that is the menu selection, but it's really a misnomer. They are subtitles, because the words on the screen are player generated.

    Close captioning = display generated, looks the same from movie to TV show and back.

    Subtitles = DVD player generated, looks different depending on the disc you play.
     
  6. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

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    "...Subtitles = DVD player generated, looks different depending on the disc you play."

    ...erm... the player does not "generate" anything...!... it simply "reads/reproduces" the bitstreams that are encoded on the disc - which could well be "subtitles" ( = spoken text ) AS WELL AS "closed captions" ( = spoken text, AS WELL AS such indications as "gunfire in street", "doorbell rings", "police siren coming closer", etcetera - functions ONLY on North American TVs, does NOT function on e.g. European TVs ) AS WELL AS subtitles in another language, say French... really: there is not a little guy living in your DVD player that rapidly types in subtitles as dialog is spoken... really!!!

    (signed) Insufferable Passing Pedant

    . . . [​IMG] . . .
     
  7. Nathan*W

    Nathan*W Screenwriter

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    Hendrik, I am well aware that subtitles are encoded on DVD's, and did not mean to imply otherwise. (How else could you have a menu screen for subtitles if they weren't encoded after all)

    However, I think you'll find that the term "Player generated subtitles" is perfectly legitimate, especially concerning discussion of player generated subtitles vs burned in subtitles eg those that are part of the film image itself.

    I also believe you'll find "generated" to be accurate, since each subtitle bitstream has to be interpreted by the player, which in turn "generates" the appropriate characters on the screen. Also, the bitstream can be modified to have the characters be displayed in a color or fade in and out and other things. Things closed captioning cannot accomplish. (let alone burned in subtitles)

    BTW Edgler, I have confirmed there is NO CC encoding on Schindler's List R1.
     
  8. Mark_vdH

    Mark_vdH Screenwriter

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    Well, if it wasn't already perfectly clear: Yes there are English subtitles available, but they are "subtitles for the deaf and hearing impaired".

    On top of that (and in line with Universal's policy), the subtitles are not centered, but are placed below/near the person who's speaking to make clear who's saying what...

    The 70 min. documentary is also subtitled BTW, as is Spielberg's introduction. [​IMG]
     
  9. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

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    "...I also believe you'll find "generated" to be accurate, since each subtitle bitstream has to be interpreted by the player, which in turn "generates" the appropriate characters on the screen. Also, the bitstream can be modified to have the characters be displayed in a color or fade in and out and other things. Things closed captioning cannot accomplish. (let alone burned in subtitles)"

    ...the player does not "interpret" or "generate" each subtitle bitstream, no more than it "interprets" or "generates" each of the soundtracks (DD 5.1, DTS, French, Spanish, what have you) that are encoded on the disc - and that includes colored or fading(?what's that?) subtitles... the player merely "plays" ( = reproduces ) the subtitles or soundtrack that you tell it to play...

    . . . [​IMG] . . .
     
  10. Nathan*W

    Nathan*W Screenwriter

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    Tell that to the people that own the R1 Star Wars Ep1 and try to play it on a JVC player(certain models). The subtitles won't play due to an incompatibility between the subtitle codec and the player's decoding mechanism. This (SW Ep1)is also an example of fading subtitles, which sounds exactly like what it is, subtitles that fade in, then fade back out. You see, subtitles on DVD are encoded onto one of the 32 subpicture tracks allotted for them. They are graphics in the real sense of the word because unlike Closed Captioning, they can appear anywhere on the screen and can take the form of text (in any alphabet), motion diagrams, pointers, arrows highlights and overlays. I've seen a subtitle track that even superimposed an MST3K type theater-seat image with commentary for the film. All of this is of course dependant upon the authors of a particular DVD. But none of it is displayed on the screen without the DVD player decoding and displaying it. "Generating" in this case would mean anything artificially on the screen that was not on the original film print.

    An excellent explanation of subtitles can be found in DVD Demystified by Jim Taylor. (Page 160 BTW as it is sitting in front of me.)
     
  11. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

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    ...alright, I'll take "decoding" rather than "generating"...

    ...the funny thing is, though, that all those people who talk about the player "generating" subtitles, would never dream of talking about that player "generating" the soundtrack(s) (like I said, DD 5.1, etc, but also a Director's commentary, for instance)...

    ...as for Closed Captions, they, too, are "graphics in the real sense of the word" and could therefore be placed anywhere on the screen, and in color, also, if required for clarity...

    ...incidentally, CC are viewable only in the USA (?and in Canada as well?) because they are decoded by the TV (not by the player!) - this effectively makes them useless for anybody living outside the USA - much to the chagrin of some Europeans who, while having some knowledge of English, and wishing to watch an American movie with the original soundtrack, would be grateful for some help in understanding American speech...

    ...in fact, I seem to remember that there were a couple of (Paramount?) DVDs in my former collection that included optional "Captions" (not "Closed" ones!) in the Menu, besides "Subtitles"... and I do remember a few French DVDs that also (or only!) offered optional Captions - selectable from the Menu...

    ...anyway...

    . . . [​IMG] . . .
     
  12. Roy Batty

    Roy Batty Second Unit

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    While this is mostly true, it must be noted that there ARE some players with CC decoding capacity, like Toshiba's 510.

    And in the computer field, Apple's latest DVD Player software (for Panther) has CC decoding too.
     
  13. Nathan*W

    Nathan*W Screenwriter

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    A good primer on Closed Captioning can be found here. Goes into the various methods of CC to account for live broadcasts, preproduced programming for broadcasts, and home video contents.
     
  14. Mikael Soderholm

    Mikael Soderholm Supporting Actor

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    Well, actually, they are decoded by the CC decoder which can be fitted inside the TV or be a stand-alone device [​IMG].
    So, there seems to be total confusion on CC, captioned (for the hearing impaired), subtitled etc, when all we (europeans) want to know is:
    is is subtitled (ie. can I access the text without an extra device)?
    are those subtitles regular or 'for the hearing impaired', ie does it say 'phone rings' or not?

    The same disc can, and has been, described differently on the various sites reviewing it, on the sites selling it, and on the cover...
     
  15. Nathan*W

    Nathan*W Screenwriter

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    Subtitles: Yes. Accessed from the DVD menu.
    Regular or Hearing Impared: Hearing Impared. I.e. It DOES say 'phone rings', etc.
     

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