SAWM40 or PB12...Advice/Questions

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Richard_s, Apr 17, 2002.

  1. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Some of these question will be dumb. After you get a good laugh please bear with me. Sorry for so many questions.
    1) SAWM40 with the polyfil mod does not boom too much for me. The problem is that it just does not seem to have enough "kick" to handle HT (music sounds great). Price $189 delivered. I can return it no problem just have to remove the polyfil.
    2) Tried an older 10" JBL 150watt front fire rear port (my sons subwoofer)model JBL psw-d110. Seemed to handle HT better maybe acceptable. Similar "boomyness" to the moded SAWM40.
    3) Rather than play the lets keep it as cheap as possible game I am concidering just going to the PB12 but I have a few concerns. Delivered $299. Concidering the help I have gotten so far from all of you I have spent alot less on my mains than I expected so that helps.
    a) Is a downfiring Subwoofer a problem in a carpetted room?
    b) I am sure for me there can not be too much power but if my wife wants to watch the movie I will have to tone down the bass for sure. Is there a way to do this and maintain reasonable low end tonal quality. I have read something about a "compression" for night viewing so you don't wake the dead by reducing the "dynamic sound range" would this do it?
    c) How "boomy" is the JBL PB12 compared, if you know, to the two subwoofers I refered to above. maybe this is concidered a good tight bass subwoofer.
    d) What is the HIGH pass filter for in the JBL PB12?
    If I go PB12 then my system will be as follow so are these a good MIX (work well together)?
    Mains JBL N26 $149
    Center JBL N-center $106
    Rears JBL N24 (not yet purchased) $99
    Subwoofer JBL PB12 $299
    Receiver Denon 1602 (Not yet purchased) $350 approx if I am luckey
    -------
    (Budget was $800 -$1000) $1003 Total now so its at the upper end of my budget..
    One last question (at least for this post) Does the Denon 1602 have the " compression" mode or whatever the mode is called that allows for lessening the "dynamic" sound range.
    Sorry I am not sure if referring one thread to another on this forum is acceptable. The link below is related just lists some detail on my room and I guess frustration. I guess I am pickier than I thought.
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=64272
     
  2. John_Bilbrey

    John_Bilbrey Stunt Coordinator

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    Purchased PB12 a couple of weeks ago. VERY happy!

    I'm using it in my carpeted living room. No problems with that, as it has "feet" on the bottom of the sub to elevate it above the floor.

    Your new receiver should have a couple of different "midnight modes" which allow you to listen and hear the important stuff without knocking the pictures off the wall (the PB12 will do it, too). It can sound a little boomy at times, but for the most part it's pretty clean, even with music (50/50 mix at my house).

    The sub has an adjustable xover from 50 to 150. You'll probably be better off using the xover on the receiver though. Search for some posts under my name, as I went through the same thing when I got my sub. Everyone here recommended using the xover on the receiver and turning the xover on the sub all the way up, effectively defeating it.
     
  3. Vin

    Vin Supporting Actor

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  4. Mark Larson

    Mark Larson Supporting Actor

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    Go with the PB-12 if you can! I had the option of buying one for $ 200, and i didn't.
    Still regretting.. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  5. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    I just read the following article linked from one of the other posts:
    "Feature Article - "The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound" - April, 2000"
    link for convenience. thanks to steve_MA for posting this link in another thread
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...pril-2000.html
    It talks about the capability of the Subwoofer needed to handle the LFE+ main speaker bass. I tend to listen at 75db but if the system were set to 85db the peaks the subwoofer will be asked to handle are 115db. Can the SAWM40 or even the JBL PB12 handle the full bass requirement (at least at 75db setting). Also will these subwoofers protect themselves from damage?
     
  6. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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  7. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Wayne
    Thanks but I really do not want to buy a new receiver and not have a warranty. Given the Deneon policy who warranty's the 882. Also I have not found a price in this range (certainly not from anyone who will qualify for the Denon warranty). I guess I feel if there is a place I can get the 1802 for $350 then I should be able to get a 1602 even cheaper. Just cant find these units that cheap. I found 1 place but they state that your warranty is with Denon but they are not an authorized dealer. Appreciate you input.
    Here is an example:
    http://www.buydig.com/cgi-local/shop...&pro_id=DN1602
    Same place wants $499 for the 1802. Go figure.
    ALL
    It boils down to this for me. Is there any way the PB12 is not better than the SAWM40 meaning quality of sound, booms more, build quality. If the answer is that comparatively in your opinion that the PB12 is going to be better in all respects than the Sony (except maybe value) then I will spend the extra $100 rather than take a chance that in a few months I will want to upgrade. Music and HT usage. I just don't want to be "penny wise and pound foolish"
    Thanks again
     
  8. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Richard,
    The following company, while not Denon authorized, has been around for some time. They will provide a warranty for the period that the manufacturer would have in the event something ever happened to your receiver: Reliable Audio Video
    While I have not purchased from this company, I've read of others who have and those individuals have received their products within one week. When I was in the market for a receiver, I did have a chance to speak with these individuals and they were quite knowledgable - it wasn't the sales team that I was speaking with, but another technical individual.
    Again, as I've indicated above, I'd spend a few more $$ and get the 1802. The remote is going to be crappy - I replaced mine with a MX-500.
     
  9. Keith Ro

    Keith Ro Agent

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  10. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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  11. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Wayne:
    Thanks for the link I will have to read up on their policies. I will also see if my local Tweeter store will come close or match their price. Yea I know about the remote. really apreciate the information I just could not find an e-tailer like the one you posted. As you have figured I am very concerned about the warranty I just have had to have too many things serviced under warranty and when out of warranty you might as well throw out the item. Seems like the only time I don't need the warranty is when I buy an extended one (Murphy's law [​IMG] )
    Keith:
    I have not thrown in the towel yet especially since so many feel that this is a good subwoofer. YES my room is very large see description at end of post. I did not like the SAWM-40 for music at first because it was too "boomy" I did the following three mods (not even sure if done totally right) but the "boominess" is now very moderate and sounds very good for music. The mods do work. I used AVIA to balance my system using a radioshack SPL meter. I did some placement playing around but I am sure more would help. Some of the problem may be that I am watching cable movies that downmix the sound to two channel annalog (no spdif on my digital cable box) so even though there are explosions etc the downmix may be poor. I don't own any good DVD movies my collection is mostly DVD music so I am borrowing the "Phantom Menace" and see how that sounds from my DVD player this movie definitely should tell me if the SAWM40 has the power to satisfy my HT enjoyment.
    The Mods The way I did them:
    1) Made a platform of 3/4 inch Oak (had a piece lying around) and put 2 1/2 inch drywall screws in each corner to act as "spikes". Placed the Subwoofer on the platform and left the little rubber feet on the unit (still want to be able to return unit).
    2) I took a 40# barbell weight I had lying around put this on top of the subwoofer. I put felt pads all around it so it would not scratch the subwoofer or vibrate on the top.
    3) Used approx 18 OZ of polyfil purchased at Walmart. They have two kind one that feels like teflon and is "slippery" and another that seems to hold together much better as it seems to have alot of friction between the fibers. I used the fiberfil with the "friction". The fiberfil I used was able to be stuffed into the unit in such a way that it did not block the rear port and filled the entire case with a cone shaped gap around the driver so that the polyfil does not contact the speaker. I did not see any need to glue or staple the stuff in place. Over time I do not know if this will move and be a problem. Right now it seems to have done what It was supposed to do help tighten the base and I can remove it without a trace.
    Room (Acoustic Nightmare):
    16X24 feet cathedral ceiling. The HT system is centered on the 24 foot wall and the seating is centerd on the opposite wall. The cathedral peaks in the center of the 24 foot dimension rising to 14 feet. A 6 foot wide open access to another room right next to the seating for viewing and that room is 11x15. The good news is that I can balance the system at 85db with AVIA and the subwoofer volume is set just below 50% and I do get good responce down to 30HZ so maybe there is still hope!!
     

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