SAW II & III - DTS-HD (Lossless?)

David Ruiz

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Aug 13, 2001
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Ok, I have a question. I know that Saw II and III are both being released this Tuesday on Blu-Ray and looking at the covers for both releases, it's clear that both movies have a DTS-HD track on them.

My question is this: are the tracks lossless or have they been compressed? The reason I ask is because I was always under the impression that DTS-HD automatically meant lossless audio, but reading a little bit further into the matter, it now seems that there are *TWO* versions of DTS-HD.

According to someone on some forum who didn't sound all too knowledgable on the subject, there's a regular DTS-HD that's lossy and then there's DTS-HD (Master Audio) which is said to be lossless.

Looking at the covers for the new SAW releases, they don't say "Master Audio" anywhere on them, so am I to automatically assume that they will have lossy tracks? I had gotten my hopes up for these two releases. I wanted to have lossless audio on both. They are two of my favourite movies of all time, but I don't want to buy them now and then have to buy them in 3 months if they decide to put real lossless tracks on them.

Does anyone have any information?
 

Neil Joseph

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This was like Stargate that said it had dtsHD. I don't know which versions Saw have.
 

Dave Moritz

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Saw has DTS-ES track and I was actually suprised to see DTS-HD listed on a Lionsgate release. However like David was asking is it the full blown DTS-HD Master Audio or the lossy verion of DTS-HD?

I am currently waiting for a reply from DTS on that question. Because I could not find a contact link for Lionsgate Home Video.

Following data is from dvd empire. The back of the case for Saw 3 clearly says DTS-HD. But the resolution of the back covers for 2 & 3 are so bad. It is impossilbe to read what it says bellow the DTS-HD symbol.

Saw / Blu-Ray
Video:
Widescreen 1.78:1 Color (Anamorphic)Audio:
ENGLISH: DTS ES 6.1
ENGLISH: DD-EX 5.1 Saw II / Blu-Ray

Video:
Widescreen 1.78:1 ColorAudio:
ENGLISH: DD-EX 5.1
ENGLISH: DTS HD 5.1 Saw III: Unrated / Blu-Ray

Video:
Widescreen 1.78:1 ColorAudio:
ENGLISH: DTS Stereo
ENGLISH: DD-EX 5.1
 

David Ruiz

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Aug 13, 2001
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Dave, thanks so much for contacting DTS about this issue. I'm glad I'm not the only one who cares whether or not SAW II and III get lossless audio tracks. The movies themselves are tremendously good and I can't believe the lack of response here. I would most defintely purchase both movies immediately if they contained lossless tracks, but you know, if they don't, then I won't because then it'll only be a matter of time before they release them correctly.
 

Dave_P.

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May 20, 1999
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Just got both of the Saw's as well as some other BD's from DVDEmpire today. The words under the DTS-HD logo is High Resolution. As a side note Saw 3 has a slipcase, while Saw 2 doesn't.
 

David Ruiz

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Aug 13, 2001
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So what does that mean? Is it lossless or lossy? Is there a way we can tell? Would lossless play at a different bitrate than lossy?
 

ppltd

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I have, I hope not a dumb question. I have just ordered all three Saw films and currently own a Samsung player (will be upgrading soon). Is there any player currently on the market that can decode the DTS HD-MA tracks?
 

MarekM

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Apr 11, 2006
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I think the first one probably will be PS3 with firmware update in march, I didn't saw any dates for other players, panasonic something stated.... but I don't have a link....

Marek
 

David Ruiz

Second Unit
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Aug 13, 2001
Messages
349
MarekM, thank you so much for that DTS link. I hadn't kept up on the latest formats and was quite behind on the new sound technologies. Interesting reading, to say the least.

So yes, both SAW II and III have lossy sound formats that are still much higher than the normal DTS versions on the regular DVDs, but nowhere near the kind of bitrate that lossless tracks have.

DTS HD High Resolution Audio supposedly has a 6 mbps bandwidth while an uncompressed, lossless DTS HD Master Audio Track would have a 24.5 mbps bandwidth.

WOW! Enormous difference between the two, that's for sure!

Hmmm... It just makes you wonder though, doesn't it? I mean, all of the Fox titles that have been released so far on Blu-Ray (or at least the ones I own) all come with DTS HD Master Audio tracks. If each of them have a bandwidth of 24.5 mbps, just how much space is being used up on sound alone?

Not that I'm complaining! Lossless sound is what this new format is all about... but with sooooooo many mbps being devoted to lossless sound, it just makes you wonder how much little space it leaves for video... ESPECIALLY when most Blu-Ray titles are only single layered! 25 GBs simply isn't enough... especially not when you have lossless tracks on there!

Or what about uncompressed PCM 5.1 tracks, like the one found on Pearl Harbor? Just how many GBs would be used on that sound track alone for such an extremely long movie? It truly boggles the mind, especially since PCM takes up such an enormous amount of space and bandwidth. Again... I'm not complaining... just wondering. Hmmmm....
 

Dave_P.

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May 20, 1999
Messages
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Not sure if this helps, but my Denon 4806 and Panny shows Saw 3 as DTS-HD 6.1. I don't have dual rear surrounds, so maybe it could be 7.1 as well.
 

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