Save Star Wars! (2 Viewers)

[RobertR]

I don't think Lucas hates or loathes the original films at all.

The fact that he won't release them (the ancient laserdisc transfers don't count), unlike, say Spielberg with CE3K or Scott with Blade Runner, proves you wrong.

 

[TravisR]

I can imagine that Lucas loves Star Wars as much as anyone so maybe 'hate' and 'loathe' are too strong but since he hasn't bothered with a new transfer of the originals since 1993, I think it's very fair to say that the SEs (and the tweaks that followed them) are the ones that he wants to go down in history. I could be wrong and I hope I am but I don't think he has any interest in ever releasing the originals again.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by RobertR

Originally Posted by Russell G [url=/t/315174/save-star-wars/60#post_3857754]

I don't think Lucas hates or loathes the original films at all.

The fact that he won't release them (the ancient laserdisc transfers don't count), unlike, say Spielberg with CE3K or Scott with Blade Runner, proves you wrong.

No, the fact that he wont release them AT THIS TIME proves that he values the updated versions more. I've never seen a statement where Lucas said he despises the original trilogy. You're reading into the facts differently then I am. Neither of us are right or wrong unless Lucas confirms it himself.


not that being right or wrong actually changes anything...

 

[RobertR]

 

No, the fact that he wont release them AT THIS TIME proves that he values the updated versions more.

"This time" has been 18 years. Will you be saying "it's only at this time" ten years from now? 20? 25? I don't need "the truth" to be issued from the mouth of George Lucas to know what it is.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by RobertR

Originally Posted by Russell G [url=/t/315174/save-star-wars/60#post_3857774]


No, the fact that he wont release them AT THIS TIME proves that he values the updated versions more.

"This time" has been over 14 years. Will you be saying "it's only at this time" ten years from now? 20? 25?

I don't need "the truth" to be issued from the mouth of George Lucas to know what it is.

Yes. It's his films remember, he can do whatever the hell he wants to with them. He owes you absolutely nothing. I know it's a harsh reality, but it is what it is.


We didn't get the original films on the first DVD release. Why not let him get to a second or third Bluray release before you write him off completely as a selfish horrible monster based on nothing but your own speculation? I can easily see another ultimate set after the 3D versions happen that could have the original trilogy in them. I have no interest in the 3D films, but I would buy a set with them and the original versions in it. You never know. Or do you know? Do you know something ROBERT, DO YOU?!?!!??

 

[Worth]

I think as a creator he sees Star Wars as a living thing, not a museum piece. Hence the constant, obsessive tinkering with the originals.

I suspect that whatever interest in storytelling Lucas may have once had is long gone. At this point, he seems only to be interested in film technology and the digital creation and manipulation of images. I'm not sure how else to explain some of the changes he's made to the films. It's filmmaking as software. I think the ultimate goal is to have the films forever updating themselves like firmware, with each successive version forever replacing the previous one. The next incarnation will probably feature CG replacements of Yoda and Jabba in the original films.

It's his films remember, he can do whatever the hell he wants to with them. He owes you absolutely nothing.

True enough. Yet I still find it baffling that he would stand before Congress and say that "a copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history". And only a few years later would do everything in his power to suppress the original cuts of his own films.

 

[RobertR]

Yes.....Do you know something

I'd say you're in denial--big time. Or maybe you just have a lot of "faith" in George Lucas. What I know isn't confined to what George Lucas says.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by RobertR

Originally Posted by Russell G [url=/t/315174/save-star-wars/60#post_3857782]

Yes.

I'd say you're in denial--big time. Or maybe you just have a lot of "faith" in George Lucas.

Or I have respect for creators rights even if I don't agree with their decisions....

 

[RobertR]

 

Or I have respect for creators rights

We were discussing what he's going to do, not his "rights" (I'm fascinated how often some people only want to talk about his "rights").

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by RobertR

Originally Posted by Russell G [url=/t/315174/save-star-wars/60#post_3857793]


Or I have respect for creators rights

We were discussing what he's going to do, not his "rights" (I'm fascinated how often some people only want to talk about his "rights").

Robert, what he's going to do and his rights are are not too separate things. Unless you have a statement from Lucasfilm saying that their will absolutely never, ever, never be a re-release of the original trilogy, then there's a chance it might happen. It seems slim right now. Lucas has already released these films once, in a substandard then preferred quality as a fan service once, what makes you so sure that it will never happen again? the "One time only on DVD" tag used on that release doesn't eliminate Bluray.


And this whole thread is about creators rights. The thread starter and other want the government to force Lucas's hand on this. Or are you for that too just so you can relive some memories?


And I know it's easy to paint me as a Lucas devote fan boy by using words like "faith", but I can honestly tell you that I could give a shit about anything Lucas does with these films. I'm happy with what I got even if I don't happen to agree with all his choices. I happen to think it's dangerous to try to force the hand of any creator with government legislation forcing them to put out product they don't wish to. It's as offensive to me as government censorship.

 

[RobertR]

Robert, what he's going to do and his rights are are not too separate things.

Of course they're separate. Spielberg has the same "rights" regarding CE3K, yet he chose a different course of action. You seem to think behavior tells us nothing about what an individual will do. I think Lucas' behavior tells us quite a bit. Nowhere have I stated that I want the government to "confiscate" anything. Instead, I simply favor the ending of the monopoly privilege that it has bestowed upon Lucas and many others. No "confiscation" involved.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Russell G

I don't think Lucas hates or loathes the original films at all. I think as a creator he sees Star Wars as a living thing, not a museum piece. Hence the constant, obsessive tinkering with the originals.

I kind of agree with that too, loathes is a hard word. But his obsessive tinkering is to make the series flow as a complete story. So the viewer will not be able to figure out when each film was made or in what order. He wants them to all look the same and that they were filmed in chronological order. So he dislikes or "loathes" the originals since they date the series.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by RobertR


Nowhere have I stated that I want the government to "confiscate" anything. Instead, I simply favor the ending of the monopoly privilege that it has bestowed upon Lucas and many others. No "confiscation" involved.

Owning the rights to your own creation isn't really a monopoly in the sense you're using it. And in the case of Star Wars, you are left with a choice, to buy the new editions or not. Just because you don't have a third choice for a product that doesn't currently exist doesn't make Lucasfilm an evil monopoly. Just because your not being served the way you want to be served doesn't make it evil either. So really, you are totally advocating "confiscation" since you want a 3rd party body to force a creator to release a version of something that he would prefer not to against his will with no regards to his rights of ownership. Let's say you have an old car, and you bought a new one. the old one is still kicking around, but needs some work to get it up to current standards. Well too bad Robert, we the people really like that car, and now we've created a government sanctioned body to force you to get that car out for a drive. And it has to be up to current standards of presentation or we the people will be really upset.


It's ridiculous, and not much different from what people are asking Lucas to do.


And it doesn't matter what other film makers care to do. That Spielberg chose to release different versions of one of his films means nothing about Lucas. Lucas controls Star Wars. Sadly not all film makers are made equal.

I kind of agree with that too, loathes is a hard word. But his obsessive tinkering is to make the series flow as a complete story. So the viewer will not be able to figure out when each film was made or in what order. He wants them to all look the same and that they were filmed in chronological order. So he dislikes or "loathes" the originals since they date the series.

I'd say that's pretty fair Allen. The quality of the updated films is a whole other debate, and he certainly seems to be making wrong headed choices for technology sake.


The way Lucas is being presented in this thread by some is of a guy sitting on a stack of money going "This will really make the fans upset! BWAAA HA HAAA HA HAAA!" while stroking a persian cat. It's ridiculous.

 

[Brian Borst]

 

I kind of agree with that too, loathes is a hard word.  But his obsessive tinkering is to make the series flow as a complete story.  So the viewer will not be able to figure out when each film was made or in what order.  He wants them to all look the same and that they were filmed in chronological order.  So he dislikes or "loathes" the originals since they date the series.  

 

If that's the case, then he needs to alter every 70's haircut, and change every special effect into a CGI version. And what about the effects in Episode I and II that don't hold up? That's the problem with redoing things, you have to keep redoing them, otherwise the redone effects will become dated as well. And while I don't agree with the changes that George Lucas made (in fact, I loathe every single one of them), I understand that he's fully in his right when he's constantly adapting them. However, the original versions are the ones that were the big successes, and the ones that made him a billionaire. For that fact alone, he should acknowledge them, and release them in proper quality. The way he released those awful Laserdisc masters in 2006 was just so he could say that nobody wants them. So I'll wait until the original versions of the trilogy are released.

 

[RobertR]

So really, you are totally advocating "confiscation" since you want a 3rd party body to force a creator to release a version of something that he would prefer not to against his will with no regards to his rights of ownership.

Show me the post where I advocated such a thing.

That Spielberg chose to release different versions of one of his films means nothing about Lucas.

It means that your idea that "rights" are indistinguishable from actions is wrong.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by RobertR

Originally Posted by Russell G [url=/t/315174/save-star-wars/90#post_3857848]

So really, you are totally advocating "confiscation" since you want a 3rd party body to force a creator to release a version of something that he would prefer not to against his will with no regards to his rights of ownership.

Show me the post where I advocated such a thing.

You've presented an argument that Lucas should be forced to release the films. Nuff said.

 

[RobertR]

 

You've presented an argument that Lucas should be forced to release the films. Nuff said.

I'll ask you again: SHOW ME where I wrote that. SHOW ME where I advocated such legislation. IF you CANNOT quote SPECIFIC TEXT from me saying that, then you are flat out WRONG.

 

[RobertR]

.

 

[Ruz-El]

It's implied, similar to how you were implying that I had "faith" in George Lucas like some deranged fan just because I respect his rights as owner and creator. When you post things like this"

Nowhere have I stated that I want the government to "confiscate" anything. Instead, I simply favor the ending of the monopoly privilege that it has bestowed upon Lucas and many others. No "confiscation" involved.

In a thread where the starter has asked the government to step in to Lucas to release Star Wars, I'm not sure how else such a thing could be implied. Your "No confiscation needed" is a case of having your cake and eating it too. Unless there's some fantasy group that isn't associated with the government and can force creators to release works, how is this fantasy "monopoly" supposed to be handled? Lucas owns the rights to Star Wars, that's how it goes. There should be no way to force his hand outside of someone buying the Star Wars rights from him and releasing the films themselves.


Feel free to put in a bid on that...

 

[RobertR]

It's implied

In other words, you can't cite anywhere where I said that. You've unilaterally put words in my mouth. All you can cite is my advocating the end of Lucas' copyright monopoly, and you somehow equate that with "confiscation". Next you'll tell me that AT&T was "confiscated" when they were no longer a legal monopoly. In fact, the very quote you cite from me (which advocates no force of any kind) contradicts what you're claiming.