save me from dumb ebay buyers! (1 Viewer)

[Ryan Wright]

I've seen this on some auctions, but I don't understand what this accomplishes?

A lot! People create accounts on eBay just to bid on things they have no intention of buying because they consider it fun. These people are in it for a quick thrill and won't take the time to email you.

On the other end of the spectrum are real buyers who didn't read the terms of the auction. They may intend to pay, but if they don't email me, then I know they didn't read my terms and conditions. These are the same type of people who, after the auction, pull crap like: Trying to force me to ship to a PO Box or without insurance (when my auction clearly states I will do neither), claiming my shipping charges are unacceptable (when they are listed on every auction), trying to force my hand in shipping international (when my auctions clearly state I only ship to the US or Canada), etc.

If a new user doesn't bother to email me, then I know he hasn't read the terms, and quite frankly I don't want to deal with him. He will likely pull some stupid stunt or later decide to disagree with one of my auction terms and this costs me time and money. Those new users who DO bother to email me prove that they have taken the time to read and understand my auction terms. I've NEVER had a new user email me first and then cause me a problem later. However, almost every new user who doesn't email me first ends up being a problem when the auction ends.

People who have eBay experience - even if it's just one transaction - and thus, positive feedback, are rarely a problem.

 

[Dan Hine]

No, that isn't how it works. You have to understand eBay's proxy bidding system.

I understand it perfectly. But he doesn't know YOU from Adam either. I think it's perfectly reasonable for him to think you're trying to scam him by having someone bid higher and then back out. IMO, the best solution would have been to meet in the middle. He DID get screwed by the other bidder by bidding higher than him and then backing out. I don't mean screwed like some kind of fraud b/c obviously he was willing to spend $450 but I guess some of us just have more compassion for someone's bad luck.

On second thought, I think the best solution would have been to end the auction and then relist the item. Either way, I think you were harsh about it.

 

[Marvin]

I understand how proxy bidding works and why Buyer A's price went up to $450 in the first place. But had Buyer B never bid, then Buyer A's bid would have remained at $280, and it should have reverted back to $280 once B cancelled. I don't understand why Buyer A's price should reflect a bid that's been cancelled.

 

[Ryan Wright]

I don't understand why Buyer A's price should reflect a bid that's been cancelled.

Then you don't understand the seperation of the proxy bidding and auction systems. Buyer A PLACED A BID for $450 via proxy. That was his final bid. Buyer B canceled his final bid of $460, thus dropping the price back down to the next highest bid - $450.

In order for the bidding to drop back to $280, buyer A's numerous bids between $280 and $450 would have to be canceled as well. He did not request that his bids be canceled, and so the system went with his highest bid.

Now do you see the seperation between the proxy bidding and auction systems? As far as the auction was concerned, he put in an actual bid at $450.

Note also that this didn't take place within seconds of the auction's end. The high bidder placed and canceled his bid several days beforehand. Buyer A had plenty of time to change his mind and cancel his bids as well.

As for my being too harsh - the guy threatened me, tried to force me to sell him an item for almost half it's value, and accused me of cheating him. How did he expect me to respond? Had he said, "You know, this isn't really fair, can we work it out?", I likely would have agreed with him and relisted the item. But you don't threaten and accuse somebody and expect them to do you any favors. Besides, for all I knew, the guy who canceled was working for him (or was him). Mistrust goes both ways.

Regardless, the whole bid canceling thing pisses me off. Buyers should not be able to cancel their own bids purely due to these sorts of problems.

 

[Dan Hine]

Note also that this didn't take place within seconds of the auction's end. The high bidder placed and canceled his bid several days beforehand. Buyer A had plenty of time to change his mind and cancel his bids as well.

Now that we've gotten to the most important part of the transaction, I take back most of what I said. It was not clear to me that this took place days before the auction ended...I was under the impression that it took place after the auction had ended. So in this case, I agree with your position. Do you see where I was coming from if this had all taken place after the auction ended?

- Dan

 

[Charles J P]

It sounds like many people dont understand the concept of proxy bidding (even though they are saying they do). It does NOT mean that you get the item at the lowest possible bid, it means that you get the item at one increment above the lowest possible bid by A DIFFERENT PERSON as long as it is under your max amount. When buyer B canceled his bid, he only cancelled his las bid (from $440 to $460) when he cancelled that LAST BID his highest bid was $440, buyer As proxy went ahead and bid $450 as directed and the auction closed. Dont say you undersand how it works and then in the same post go to great lengths making it clear that you dont. :rolleyes

 

[Ryan Wright]

Do you see where I was coming from if this had all taken place after the auction ended?

If a brand new user had jumped in at the last second, pushed this guy's bid up, then canceled, I would have totally been on his side. So, yes, I understand where you were coming from.

I still maintain that if he wasn't willing to pay $450, he never should have bid $450. "I was cheated" is a BS excuse when you willingly placed the bid. If I place a bid on an item I fully expect to pay my maximum amount. If I get it for less, then that's just gravy, but I'm not going to be pissed because I end up paying what I originally agreed to pay.

 

[Malcolm R]

So, if Buyer A saw this and cancelled his $450 bid, would Buyer B then be back on the hook at $440?

I would have thought that by cancelling a bid, you are basically stating "I no longer have any interest and do not want to participate in this auction," and that all your bid history would be deleted as if you'd never participated at all and the proxy would drop back accordingly.

 

[Charles J P]

Think of it this way. Say Malcom and I are at the auction house... He bids $100, I bid $110, and so on in $10 increments up to $450. this is exactly what is happening with proxy bids. So Malcom bid $100, and I bid $110 Now if I was the one who bid $440 and the auctineer says Malcom bids $450 and you say no wait, that was a mistake, I was just itching, then your bid doesnt count but that does not mean that I get the item for $110. I guess to understand proxy bidding you must understand the term "proxy". All it is is an entity that is instructed to perform a task for you. It could be a person or a computer. In this case, it is a small application that has been instructed to bid in increments up to a certain point. So when it bids from $120 to $140 (after the other persons proxy bids $130) you are responsible for that bid as if you clicked the button manually each time.

 

[James T]

A couple months ago, I saw this funny bid on ebay. It was for a Star Wars toy. It went off to a good start, but near the end, it was down to two people. You can see that Bidder B kept making a bunch of bids, but when bidder B's bid started reaching the thousands, my guess is that he got curious what Bidder A put as his max price. The end result? Bidder A put in a max bid of something like $99 998 and Bidder B must of put in a high price of a larger amount of money, because Bidder B won with $99 999.

I'm probably wrong with the numbers, but it was definetly something outrageous.

 

[GordonL]

Or, someone might see frustration in the idiots who bother to bid on an item in the first 6 days, driving up the prices... when you could as easily waited until the last moment and applied the amount you were willing to pay.

Vince,
That's not the point. There were literally dozens of listings for the same or similar item at the same price with zero bids. Why couldn't the high-bid idiots snipe the items that have zero bids? They could've easily won their bids at the lowest possible price but they chose to try to outbid everyone else to pay a higher price. Does that sound like smart bidding to you?

 

[Eric Kahn]

I was actually in an Ebay auction where someone overbid me then the bid was retracted 2 days later and the lister put the price back to where I had started (I was the first bidder, the retracted bid was the second), not my max proxy bid, I was eventually outbid because I always bid my max price then leave the auction alone

 

[TreyP]

My opinion on the Buyer A/Buyer B issue...

Ryan and Buyer A both got screwed. Ebay and Buyer B are both at fault.

Buyer B shouldn't have been able to back out... Ebay's fault for allowing it, and Buyer B's fault for backing out.

After he backed out, then ALL of his bids should have been cancelled on that item, he shouldn't have been able to bid on it again, and the price should have went back down to $280 (if he was the only one that bid between $280 and $500)... Ebay's fault.

Had the item went back down to $280, then more people probably would have bid on it, but since it was stuck on $450, when the next highest bid wasn't near that, then its safe to assume that's why noone bid.

And this is just my opinion... Buyer A probably saw a shot at getting a great deal out of a bad situation (ripping Ryan off), so that's why he sent the distastefull emails. If I were Ryan, I would have just relisted the item and told Buyer A to bid again. I also would have filed a complaint with Ebay.

 

[Gregg Shiu]

Hey all, speaking of stupid ebayers, check out my listing I posted then quickly revised:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ory=15666&rd=1

I promptly recieved this in my email, sorry buddy, if you read this forum, but man, this question was pretty dumb.


Why does it say "Auction cancelled" in the description portion? Has this auction been cancelled?

--------------------


Question from: (removed for privacy)
Title of item: NIB Oakley Half Jacket GOLF ARRAY Sunglasses!
Seller: greggshiu
Starts: Jun-28-03 11:46:15 PDT
Ends: Jul-01-03 11:46:15 PDT
Price: Currently $9.99


Can anyone please tell me how to officially cancel this auction from ebay, because I've just noticed there are like 3 bids for this auction of nothing. Please help!

 

[andrew markworthy]

I have defended "sniping" on this forum previously, and will continue to do so.

Vince, I don't have a problem with sniping - the issue was the stupidity of someone who sniped on an item when there were two identical items available at the same time and a lower price!

Incidentally, I also agree that if someone offers something at an inflated price it's sensible to offer a lower one, but in my specific instance, I *honestly* wasn't inflating the price (the reserve was 50% of the true market value).

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Did all the other versions of the same item finish with a lower price (or no bids?) than the one you bid on?

My only thought would be, as a person looking to bid last minute on an item, in which there are 3 identical versions ending at the same time--- I'd assume there were a half dozen guys just like me waiting for the last minute bid.

Logic might say they will probably go for the one one(s) with no bids, figuring that they can get it cheaper. So, my move might be to go after the one you were bidding on, that had a slightly higher price, banking avoid the 6 other guys and steal the item a little lower.

Now, that gamble might not have paid off, and instead we 6 end up bidding on the same one in the last minute, while the other 2 went unbid-- but usually you'll have people doing last minute bidding on all 3, so I find it hard to believe the final prices on the 3 identical items ended up THAT different (and even harder to believe that yours sold for too much while the two others ended with zero bids)...

-V

 

[Ryan Wright]

And this is just my opinion... Buyer A probably saw a shot at getting a great deal out of a bad situation (ripping Ryan off), so that's why he sent the distastefull emails. If I were Ryan, I would have just relisted the item and told Buyer A to bid again. I also would have filed a complaint with Ebay.

Trey, you're right on. And I did relist the item, but I blocked Buyer A from bidding on any of my future items. I don't want to deal with people who threaten me. There are plenty of pleasant people out there.

 

[Marvin]

Ryan, do you have a link to that auction? I'd like to see the bidding history.

I asked a similar question on an eBay discussion board and all the responses were that the price should fall back to what it was had Buyer B never bid, i.e. the starting price. Unfortunately, I didn't get an official response from an eBay techie. But this answer is consistent with Eric's experience (several posts up).

 

[Chris Lockwood]

> the issue was the stupidity of someone who sniped on an item when there were two identical items available at the same time and a lower price

I think some people just bid on the first one they see & don't look beyond that. If you look at a list of identical items sorted by auction end time, you'd think that the prices would get lower on the items that are farther from ending, but that's not always the case.

But then, any time you buy something at auction, you can't really complain about the price, since you offered to pay that.

 

[Ryan Wright]

Ryan, do you have a link to that auction? I'd like to see the bidding history.

Unfortunately not. The auction took place over a year ago, and has long since been removed from the system. Perhaps eBay has changed this since then?