Satelite speakers..Optimal system..Recommendations (1 Viewer)

[Phil Iturralde]

Quote:

No, but with JBL robust power handling rating (see below), you won't have to worry about overload. You audible sensory will overload before you blow the JBL speaker. You have more than enough 'head room' to play it @ Cinematic SPL levels if your neighbor's don't mind - w/sub of course.
JBL N24 SPEC: Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power: 100 Watts**
**The maximum recommended amplifier power rating will ensure proper system headroom to allow for occasional peaks. We do not recommend sustained operation at these maximum power levels.
Mini-Monitor SPEC: Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 - 100 watts / Maximum Input Power 80 watts***
***With typical program source, provided the amplifier clips no more than 10% of the time.
For Reference:
JBL S26 SPEC: Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power: 150 Watts*+*
*+*The maximum recommended amplifier power rating will ensure proper system headroom to allow for occasional peaks. We do not recommend sustained operation at these maximum power levels.
Phil

 

[Richard_s]

Phil:
The wife will be my speaker protection for sure. But when she is not home watch out neighbors
OK Today is Friday "spring Holiday" as it is called where I work so I am OFF today. Have my route worked out Cambridge Soundworks first, then Paradygm then JBL. Plan to come home with something to audition. Will try to convince my son to let me borrow his JBL 10 SUB and set the system up to evaluate or may pick up a Sony SUB at Best Buy $179. He has balanced his system (at 85db using AVIA did not bother him) so its a pain to lend me his SUB. Will report back on what my experince was as best I can.

 

[Richard_s]

Now my feedback:
The line-up I auditioned:
Cambridge Soundworks MC300, M60, M80
Paradigm Atom, Titan
JBL N24, N26, N28
Since I don’t know the proper terms I will do my best to describe what I experienced on my Quest.
First and foremost I just did not like my Bose AM-7 system. I was trying to deal with the highs being too shrill and “bright” you know the “SS” problem and voices lacked the midrange. The satellites just do not go low enough and the passive woofer just does not fill enough of the missing base. All of the speakers I auditioned resolved the major issues I have with my Bose so goodby Bose Now not all of the speakers above were to my liking (personal taste they were all quite good).
Cambridge Soundworks: They all seemed too mellow at the high end where the violins, pianos, my Baroque Brass and my Phantom of the Opera CD’s all need some “brightness” to sound true and these just did not have what I was looking for. Of the three however I liked the MC300 the best.
Paradigm: The Atom and the Titan were both very good and gave me the kind of sound I was looking for. They both seemed to image equivalently and had similar sound qualities. The Titan of course was superior in the low end but both were good enough for me with a powered SUB going. For what I was looking for the Atom would have been the better of the two based on price alone.
JBL: The N24, N26, N28 all sounded quite good on all accounts and the N24 seemed very much like the Atom but the N26 to me seemed better than the Titan. The N28 held no advantage for what I wanted when all three are run with the JBL PB10 SUB. This is what I found surprising and I don’t think it was Best Buy’s setup either (I even went to two Best Buy’s). The N24 was much less efficient than the N26 (took a higher volume setting to get the same audible volume). I am guessing a 4db difference. The other striking difference was that the N26 had more crisp highs than the N24 (but the N24 was still quite good). The other main difference was that the N26 imaged better at all volumes. The N24 need more volume to maintain a good image than the N26 but that volume is still low enough that this is not a big issue. OK so I bought a pair of the N24’s given that the JBL system would be the cheapest by a large margin. Unfortunately neither Best buy had a Sony SUB so I do not have one to run my test with.
Now I set my system up with the N24’s. Stereo only mode with the acoustics set to FLAT (treble and base set to 0db). My take so far is this. The N24’s sound very good and achieve what I want over my Bose. They are quite impressive. They do exhibit the image vs volume issue I talked about but again the volume where they start to image very well is low enough. The highs sound true enough but I feel that for Music the N26 are definitely a better choice. For movies definitely the N24’s with a center channel and certainly for surrounds these N24’s are all I need (even with full range rears in DD5.1 and DPL II). For music the N24’s are adequate but the N26’s are a better choice at least for me. The imaging is better and the Highs seem better to me. Now I need to listen to the TV and Music a few days set up as stereo with treble and base set at 0 db (Flat). If I still like the N24’s I will place an order with J&R (assuming they still have stock on the NSP1’s).
Conclusion:
For $249 the NSP1 system can’t be beat (at least for what I want) except I will need to get two N26’s at some point for better Music, for HT I don’t feel I will need the N26’s. So after I get a new receiver in May or June and be able to do DPL II, DD6.1/7.1 I will move the N24’s to take the additional surround positions and get myself two N26 speakers. Buying the NSP1 and two N26’s is approximately the same price as four Atoms and a center speaker so from a price/performance criterion this is just the ticket for me and I will have all the speakers I need for the future with DD6.1/7.1.

 

[Phil Iturralde]

Richard - Thank you for sharing your subjective, objective observations and for providing a nice summary of your auditioning trek! Interestingly, I have received at least 10 emails in the last three months expressing basically the same decision you made, after they spent time auditioning the various speaker offerings vs. the JBL speakers.

"Designed using technologies employed in JBL's professional recording studio monitors, the Northridge Series sets a new price/performance benchmark and makes high-quality JBL sound more affordable than ever before."

Phil

 

[Richard_s]

Well I guessed 4db my ear was off the N24 vs N26 is only 2db.

My older Pioneer that I am using right now is a VSX-602S with 70w/front channel and only 40w/rear but these are true ratings. Not only do I need more power but this unit has DPL but no DD or DPL II so no mistery why I need a new unit. It does seem to power the N24 fronts w/70w quite well though.

When you say "will sound sweeter" does the tweeter break in or only the woofer?

The only minor disapointment so far is the imaging is not great with the N24's but livable. I have the speakers 1 foot from the wall (like they were mounted on the wall) and 6' apart (my TV is a 53 inch so I can't put them much closer together) and two feet off the carpeted floor. Any ideas to possibly improve imaging (I checked the phase just to make sure). Maybe the speakers need to be brought forward of the TV or at least flush with the front. I will experiment but are they stands that would be stable for these speakers and also be usable for the N26's when I get them? Many stands cost as much as these speakers so I am looking for something reasonably priced.

Good recommendation on the N26 Mark II I was not thinking about that. I would only get the N26 plastic if they are at a discount due to being phased out. Based on my auditions the N26/N26 Mark II will definitely solve the imaging issue (more of an issue for me for music not HT).

 

[Phil Iturralde]

...are they stands that would be stable for these speakers and also be usable for the N26's when I get them?

TECH CRAFT PS31 Speaker stand
priced between $32 to $49 - you can use velcro to fastened them on the platform. Factor in the S/H cost of all listed.
I used Sanus 31" Speaker Stands (2000 yr model @ $69) from Best Buy. Check out their sale price for comparison.
Hope this helps,
Phil

 

[Richard_s]

Thanks and YES the image is much better with the speakers flush to the front of the TV and using my db meter I could measure the reflection off the side of the TV at right angles to the TV. Pulled forward this dispersed sound decreased significantly. So again you are right as to why this location is better.

Question I just though of. How do I set the appropriate cutoff frequency for the subwoofer with an Ncenter with N26 fronts. The N center goes down to 89HZ but the N26 goes down to 55hz (unlike the N24 which matches the Ncenter)?

The N26..................55 to 20,000 Hz

N-24 front left/right... 89 Hz to 18.9 kHz ±2.7 dB

N-Center................ 89 Hz to 20 kHz ±5.5 dB

I should have thought of the velcro I guess pretty much any stand will work. Can always stabalize the base if necessary on the carpet by putting a #4 screw (through each corner)the screw will penetrate the carpet enough to stabalize.

 

[Phil Iturralde]

Imaging better? Read this "Why Satellites speakers exhibit superior imaging!"

Quote:

Well, the easiest way to explain it to you, ...would be to explain what I would do!
I would choose small for ALL the speakers, and let the AV Receiver take care of the crossover duties. Which is what I did with my setup.
My Yamaha fixed crossover = 90 Hz, so anything under that Frequency will route to my power-sub. No fuss, no mess and works great!!!
Phil

 

[Yann]

I've you're going the route of smaller bookshelf speakers, I highly recommend you listen to the Klipsch SB-2. I've been using mine now for about 2-3 weeks, and I've been very impressed. This was for a music system, but I hear Klipsch works very well in HT environments.

 

[Richard_s]

Yann

Thanks for the recommendation. Yes the Klipsch are very good sounding speakers. Before this post I was looking for a better satelite system but quickly realized that a bookshelf system with a SUB would be the best choice by far. Cost to performance is a factor but I would spend what I had to to get a system that was good enough for what I wanted. I eliminated the Klipsch based on Price (not value they may be worth the money) even if they outperform what I auditioned:

Cambridge Soundworks MC300, M60, M80

Paradigm Atom, Titan

JBL N24, N26, N28

For me to get the Klipsch I was looking at (not on sale):

$250 SB1B for Rears

$359 SB2B for Fronts

$350 RC3B for Center

----

$959(this is why I did not audition them they may be worth the difference)

Comparable JBL (can't say equivalent did not audition Klipsch))

$99 N24 For rears ( +$40 for Mark II)

$140 N26 Fronts (+60 for Mark II)

$110 Ncenter for center (+40 for Ncenter II)

-----

$349

Alternate JBL senario:

$259 NSP1 (four N24's one N-center

$140 N26

--------

$399 (but gives me four N24's for surround speakers)

For those interested this is what I ended up doing:

I brought home a pair of N24's (my "review" is posted above). The N24's were able to fill my 16'x24' family room without trouble and sounded great. I felt however that the N26's were a better choice for the fronts. I am sure that the JBL system is all the performance I need. I took my rear speaker down (Bose model 100) not as good as the N24 but pretty close when paired with a N24. Close enough for me to continue to use them for my rears for now (can always upgrade to N24's for $99 later). Since I really wanted the N26's for my fronts and the Bose Model 100's will do for my rears (for now) this is what I ordered:

$140 N26 Fronts....Did not get mark II $60 more

$110 N-center.... Did not get the NIIcenter $40 more

$0 Bose Model 100's Rear (replace in future maybe)

-----

$260 (not a big investment but should be big on performance)

Return the N24's to Best Buy.....

When I get a new amplifier and set it up as Phil recommends by setting all speakers small and my SUB crossover appropriately for the receiver my Bose may be just fine if not I will replace them with a pair of N24's. Yes I waste $50 dollars this way and do not have an N24 for the center rear (if I go DD6.1) but I wanted to get the N26's now and felt this was a reasonable cost effective compromise. Maybe the Bose model 100's will do the job with DD5.1 .I use my system as much for music as I do for HT so that is why I went with the N26's now. I also plan to get a Sony SAWM40. If I want DD6.1 then I will have a problem can't buy just three N24's.

 

[Mike Kao]

From the looks of this thread it seems as if a bunch of JBL employees banded together on some kind of advertising campaign here at the HTF!

 

[Phil Iturralde]

... bunch of JBL employees banded together on some kind of advertising campaign here at the HTF!

Hey Mike Kao, I don't work for JBL,...I work for KLA-Tencor Corp., San Jose/Milpitas CA, Lead - Technical Services (Sr. E/M CAD Operator). Just answering consumer's questions about JBL w/facts, documented reviews and personal INFO.

Why don't you do a search for the latest speaker FAD designs that joined the consumer arena in the last 5 years, and see if this thread is any different from those speaker brand enthusiasts.

Phil

 

[Stephen Houdek]

I work at an Automotive manufacturer that will remain nameless.

 

[Stephen Houdek]

Moderator edit -

FOR THE RECORD - Stephen was apologizing for jumping in. He was not refering to anyone else with that name.

Stephen - please be carefull. We cannot see you hit your head and go "Duoh". It almost looked like you were calling other posters names.

 

[Richard_s]

Mike Kao:
I fail to see the constructive nature of you comment we are all here to gain information and if we can help others. I hate to see a thread like this ruined.
This has been an excellent and informative thread and was right on target for its original objective. How to solve the lack of midrange performance with my BOSE system and the JBL's do just that at a very reasonably price. I use many forums and the last thing a quality forum like this one needs is FLAMING of any kind.
Yes some of the individuals posting here are JBL advocates and yes some of them know each other but what is wrong with that. If Phil or any of the other individuals here do in fact work for JBL that makes the time they spent answering my questions and the questions of others even that more impressive. Did you ever try to get quality information like in this thread from any company through the internet customer service.
I recommend that if you are not a JBL advocate then that is fine post what you would recommend instead, that would be helpful and appropriate. I am sure there are better products out there but are they better performing for the price? maybe please share your experience.
In the end after listening to the individuals here I did audition Paradigm, Cambridge Soundworks and JBL and after all was said and done I felt JBL was the best value for what I was looking for. I am an AMD advocate and I would support them over Intel but I do not work for AMD.

 

[Stephen Houdek]

Sorry about that moderator......I'll try to be more careful. Glad you read my intent correctly.....Hope I didn't stir up too many tempers.

 

[Mike Kao]

I had no intentions of being offensive or even serious with that commment. I'm sorry if you feel that I have ruined your thread, I meant it simply as a joke, nothing more.

 

[Kenny Booth]

OK I admit it I own the James B. Lansing corp.

Phil, your check is in the mail.