samsung vs panny (1 Viewer)

[kahlilJ]

i've just found out about this 42" plasma which rivals the one i have been wanting for sometime now & now feel undecided about which is best? the samsung sp-r4232 or the panny th-42pd25u/p.

i have been wanting the panny for a while, but unwilling to pay the amounts i have seen advertised. the samsung has most of the features i want in a tv like hdmi, pip,... but its cost its a little less than pannys. i have not seen the panny pd25 side by side with the samsung because they are being discontinued/replaced with the pd50 series.

the samsung looked as good as the panny pd50 unit. with same signal source and even after tweaking the settings.

my questions are:
is anyone familiar with this samsung unit?
have u seen it alongside a panny pd25?
what would justify the panny costing more?
basically, which is better?

thanks,
kahlil

 

[PeterTHX]

These are EDTVs, right? Blechh.

HD wise Panasonic is less expensive and has the best picture.

 

[EricRWem]

Careful, Peter! If R. Harkness from AVS sees that...

 

[PeterTHX]

Hm. Wouldn't want to unleash an ED vs HD flamewar now would we?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

I will have one of the new ED Samsung units in my living room tomorrow and I will be able to put it through its paces.

I've calibrated so many of the Panasonic units that I wanted a change of pace. Let's see what this 10000:1 CR is all about. (Evil laughing)

ED versus HD ... well if you are sitting more than 10 feet away, you really can't tell the two apart ... and certainly not on DVD's or SD cable.

Regards

 

[PeterTHX]

What what what???

COLOR, overall sharpness & texture differences can be seen from over 15 feet away on some DVDs and that's not even HD! ESPECIALLY after calibration!

You're not serious are you?

PS: The Panasonic, even in ED, has much better blacks than the Samsung.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

DVD is DVD ...it has a finite number of pixels of detail. You cannot see more detail on it on a HDTV versus an ED set. Detail doesn't get created out of the ether.

Did I say the Samsung has better blacks? I don't think so ... that is why I am going to perform some objective tests to see.

If you can make out the fine lines of a multiburst pattern at 15 feet ... I'd like to see that. You can't see the differentiation of the lines at the pixel level ... then you can't see the detail. Simple as that.

Let me run my tests first instead of tearing it down before I even start. Shouting me down doesn't make you right.

Regards

 

[PeterTHX]

Who's shouting? If I seem to be doing that I apologize.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

How can one tell if the colours they see are more accurate than another display?

Are both displays properly calibrated? If not, then how does one make that qualitative judgement?

Well that's what I am going to do. I'm going to properly calibrate it and then decide what it does good and not so good.

My decisions are based on real testing. If I can align the color space on the Samsung and I cannot do it on the Panasonic, then that tells me that the Samsung would be capable of more accurate colours than the Panasonic. I'm going to wait and see. I know what the Panasonics can do ... now let's see what the Samsung is capable of.

Regards

 

[kahlilJ]

ummm guys? while the intellectual, aesthetic, dare i say - philosophical "discussion" about ED vs HD is really appreciate, the original question was regarding the sammy vs the panny models stated (sp-r4232 vs th-42pd25u/p both EDTV). can we return to that?

so michael you have one of these sammy sp-r4232's? have you also owned or worked on the panny pd25 units? i;m curious to know your findings..

kahlil

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Weil since I am an ISF calibrator guy, I have calibrated many of the Panasonic plasma panels both in store and at people's homes. I'm very familiar with their performance and I like the price point as well. They are very good performers. That said, the Samsung is an unknown commodity to me so that is why I chose to get it to play with.

The Samsung unit I am receiving is the PPM42M5S unit. This is the monitor display version of the set you are looking at. Just no speakers and no tuner and other consumer frills.

I'll let you know in a day or so what the initial calibrated findings are.

Regards

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Some good and bad points about this new samsung plasma set.

Very respectable color decoding settings from the factory. Red totally under control and green under saturated by a bit but you can't tell by looking at it. Color gamut is pretty decent with the primary blue and red colours spot on and green actually quite a bit outside the triangle.

Contrast ratio really does meet their boast of 10000:1. The real measurements were as follows for CR ...

Ansi method ... 1050:1 which meets my 6-10% rule. Take the company rating and take 6 to 10% of that as the real CR you get on a calibrated TV image.

Using their fake method for maximizing the CR numbers, I got between 12500:1 to 13200:1 in CR. Very nice numbers if you believe all that.

Now the bad stuff.

Gamma is mediocre at best and although selectable ... from 0 to 4 ... none really make it anywhere close to what the Panasonics behave. This poor gamma results in a significant color shift in the grayscale toward the purple end in the blacks.

Grayscale tracking was okay ...

Transition to black adds too much dithering to the image where as the panasonic has a much smoother transition into black.


So which would I get ... ? Stay with the Panasonic ... it had far less of a digital look to it.

If the Panasonic rated a 9/10 ... this Samsung would be a 7/10. Respectable ... but not good enough.

Regards

 

[PeterTHX]

Well, I so much as said that.

I just think that it's worth saving a bit more and getting the HiDef version instead, especially with true HD disc formats and more HDTV channels coming.

It's an investment.

In any case, they made quite a leap in quality with the 50 series over the 25.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Did you?

The Panasonic has better colors? I did not find that at all in the testing. The Samsung has a very decent color gamut, the same if not slightly more accurate than the Panasonic.

The Panasonic has better blacks? Well not really. The Samsung has the better blacks. The trouble is in the transitions to black.

There is something to be said for real data versus opinion.

And of course TV's are not investments any more than DVD players or hamburgers. None of these will ever go up in value which makes them poor investments indeed. Getting a 790,000 pixel HD display is hardly the pinnacle of quality HD viewing when a CRT RPTV can easily deliver 1.3 million pixels for far less money.

Regards

 

[Alf S]

When we all know the broadcast world is going HD and NOT ED, why would one want to invest money in an "inferior" format?

Most major A/V magazines say to stay away from EDTV and spend the little bit more for a true HD set.

 

[kahlilJ]

peter, i find it interesting that you feel the 50 series is a "leap in quality" over the 25 series. can you explain how so? the main reason i want the pd25 instead of the pd50 is because of all the features (mainly pip & cablecard) that panny took off the 50 model.

michael,thanks for your insightful interpretive data. is your comparison of the sammy versus the 50 series or 25? also have you measurable data/history of any pq difference between the panny pd50 vs pd25?

i am by no means an expert & certainly not qualified to calibrate these units, but you said u were using the PPM42M5S unit? since it lacks some of the eletronics that the SP-R4232 has, could that not impact its display or video production?? i mean is there any chance or known history that say internal electronics in one unit could create some quirks that wont be seen in the other unit lacking those parts?

hope this makes sense.

 

[PeterTHX]

The 50 has much, much better black levels.

It still has CableCard, HDMI, optical digital out. No PiP.

Right now Circuit City has the HD TH42PX50U for $3149.99 and the ED TH42PD50U for $2249.99. It's really worth saving the extra grand for the HD model. Much better investment IMHO.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

There are always unit to unit variations. It can't be helped. But somethings won't change in the sense that "picture enhancing" features are always turned off as part of a professional calibration. This makes it far closer between the consumer level units and the commercial units.

It's just one data point ... but hopefully an informed one. It also gives you ammunition when you go to the store to look that their models. You now know to look for specific things and if you don't see them ... then it's a BONUS. I'm going to completely rework the set again tonight.

I have not had a chance to look at the latest and greated Panasonic units, but the difference in the previous units between the commercial and the consumer level units were small if not slightly favoring the commercial units. I am not expecting the Panasonic to take a step backwards ...

Regards

 

[Alf S]

For that price you can get a 52" Mitsubishi HD DLP with HD tuner built in and a ton of inputs etc...

 

[kahlilJ]

thx again peter. i know the 50 still has hdmi, but there were at least a 3-4 items that it lacked that the 25 had which i insist on having. so if not the cable card then perhaps it was the number of inputs/outputs? i cant recall offhand since it's been a few months since i last compared features of the two and decided i still preferred the 25 for its functionality.

so michael are you saying that the sp-r4232 has some display enhancements that the sammy you tested does not? or that they were just turned off?

good info guys.

p.s. alf, logistically only a flat panel tv will suit my needs. therefore not interested in dlp or rear projector or similar.