Samsung TXM2792F squeeze mode

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Matt C, Mar 24, 2005.

  1. Matt C

    Matt C Stunt Coordinator

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    After reading some old posts on this television, I found out that I could enable the "squeeze mode" through the service menu, which would then allow me to turn it on and off via the remote, just like other samsung televisions. However, after doing this, I noticed that the squeeze mode squeezes too much, and the picture is squeezed down about an extra inch on the top and bottom of the picture, when compared to the same movie in the standard, unsqueezed mode (using a 16:9 enhanced DVD, Emperor's New Groove). I've tried this with other inputs on the television, all with the same results.

    Does anyone who uses or used to use this telelvision know of a setting in the service menus that controls how much the picture is squeezed? Once I know which menu item controls this, I could easily calibrate it to the correct squeeze, but I am hesitant to start randomly changing things in the service menu. Has anyone been able to get hold of the service manual for this television? I had tried about two years ago, but the Samsung representative told at that time that it was not available.

    Any help would be great, the squeeze mode on this set really makes the picture much clearer!

    -Matt C

    Update: I just checked out a 1.85:1 movie (Catch Me if you Can), which also appears to become squeezed more than it should. However, I also looked at a 2.35:1 film (Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon), and compared the squeeze mode to the standard, and it's vertical size on the screen is not affected by the squeeze mode, that is, it's vertical size is the same in both squeeze and standard modes. Any ideas?

    I am going to throw in my Avia disc as soon as I have a chance, and take a look at the geometry tests with circles, maybe that will tell me something.
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    Do circles look like circles? That is the only way to really tell if your squeeze mode is really off.

    If circles are circles, you would really have to call it all good. Does that make sense?
     
  3. Matt C

    Matt C Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the reply John, and yep, you made complete sense.

    I checked out the 16:9 test patterns on the avia disc, and the circles were definitely eliptical. What I don't understand is how 2.35 material avoid being squeezed more than it should, while everything else is squeezed too much.

    I did some extensive googling on both the web and groups, and didn't find anything usefull. With the yahoo search, I managed to find a blurb in some forum about which codes control vertical and horizontal position and sizes, but not what controls how much the television squeezes an image in Wide mode.
     
  4. Matt C

    Matt C Stunt Coordinator

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    Would it be useful for me to post the different codes in the service menu here, for someone with more know-how than me to make an educated guess? Just to mention it ahead of time, I would never hold anyone on this forum responsible for my changing of any settings based on recommendations, or blame anyone for whatever may or may not happen, I'm just looking for an educated guess, as I have no experience with playing around in service modes. Also, this television is well out of warranty, so that is not a problem, and I have already created a spreadsheet with all of the factory settings recorded, so going back to any default settings would be a snap.

    -Matt C
     
  5. Matt C

    Matt C Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok, I figured I might as well go ahead and post the service menu codes, in hopes that someone might be able to make a guess. Here they are, as they appear on the screen, along with the factory settings for each:


    SCT____7 AKB____0 AGC____33 DSBT___0
    SBT____6 NDL____1 HPAR___42 DCDL___6
    BLR___36 NSR___10 HBOW___34 DBLR___0
    BLB___26 SCBT__36 EWID___31 DBLB___0
    RG____35 VOL___10 EPAR___37 DSK____0
    GG____25 CAP___12 EUCN___31
    BG____38 MVOL___7 ELCN___24
    VSL___28 RPO0___1 ETRP___18
    VS____31 RPO1___1 VZ_____48
    VA____33 AGCS___1 SVM_____0
    HS____36 OMD___15 VMA_____3
    SC____29 SCL____3 SSP_____5
    CDL___11 PWL___15 PSNS____1
    STT____5 MUS____1 DNSR____5


    Known codes (still unconfirmed, info gained from another site, but seem likely):

    VS: vertical position
    VA: vertical stretch
    HS: horizontal position
    EWID: horizontal stretch

    If any moderators feel that this thread may be better suited for the Tweaking forum, I would appreciate the move; I had assumed this forum would be the best bet for finding a person with ideas.

    -Matt C
     
  6. John S

    John S Producer

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    You know what? I'd say at this point you did the perfect thing.


    Several expeirenced calibrationists frequent these forums, and with some patience, I'll bet you get the answer posted here for you.


    I'm still scared to death of the service menu myself. And I am considred exerienced, even qualified personel. [​IMG]
     
  7. Matt C

    Matt C Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, I finally buckled down and ordered the service manual for my television from http://www.samsungparts.com ($31 after shipping, ouch!). Hopefully this will explain what the different menu codes are for. However, if anyone has any ideas, I'd still appreciate them; the manual won't ship for at least three days from now, and I could still cancel the order and save myself some money.

    -Matt C
     
  8. Matt C

    Matt C Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok, some (rather small) progress is being made with my problem. I've now confirmed that the Wide mode is not over-squeezing at all. The elliptical circles I mentioned earlier was the result of a basic geometry problem, which I adjusted successfully with the four codes mentioned in post five that I knew the purpose of.

    Instead, the mask, or whatever it is called, that comes down and up when Wide mode is engaged, covering the unused image area of the screen is coming up and down too far, covering part of the 16:9 image on the top and bottom. This is why movies with wider aspect ratios don't appear to have a problem. I've also noticed that when switching through the zoom modes, from normal to zoom to Wide, while a DVD image is paused on the screen (Shrek; 1.78:1), the full 16:9 image is there for a fraction of a second until the mask engages and crops the image, so the mask is 100% confirmed as being the problem.

    Does anybody have an idea from the code listings above if any of them might control the size of this mask? Unfortunately, the service manual I ordered still hasn't come, even though it's been a week now, so I can't use that as a reference, though I hope to have it soon...

    Any ideas?

    -Matt
     
  9. John S

    John S Producer

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    To my knowledge it doesn't work that way...

    Maybe the overscan setting? I dunno, still sounds odd to me.


    It seems this set was not really offered with the 16:9 mode, but you attempting to get one to work?

    Hard for to envision exactly what is going on with it. But I am not a service menu kind of guy at all.
     
  10. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    And we know for certain that the DVD player is set to 16:9 right?

    Regards
     
  11. Matt C

    Matt C Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the replies!

    John,
    I took a look at the overscan with the Avia disk, the television is about 5% on all sides, which I think is a pretty reasonable level, allowing for pretty much all the picture possible without allowing any edge distortions to show on the screen. The television was originally advertised as offering the 16:9 mode, however, when released, the mode was turned off within the service menu. You can see the mode still listed in the features on the Samsung site: Samsung TXM2792F

    When I originally purchased the television, I talked to two separate representatives from samsung about the missing Wide mode, one said the mode was supposed to be there, the other said it had never been offered on that set (these were service techs), so at the time I decided to ignore it. Now that the warranty has expired on the set, I figured I'd try to get it working...

    I am sure that there is some kind of masking going on as I can see the full 16:9 image for just a fraction of a second before the mask engages and crops the top and bottom of the picture off.

    Michael,
    Yep, the DVD player is set in the 16:9 television mode (I must have checked that at least five times over the past week thinking I'm an idiot and forgot to turn it on!). Do you know if some sort of mask really is there, from your experience? I recall reading somewhere that a mask is used to hide any distortions or light on the edge of the squeezed image? (I've run some searches but I can't seem to find the thread anywhere)

    Just for some extra info, I've compared the image on the Shrek DVD. With the player set to 4:3, and the television in normal viewing mode, there is some of the picture on the tops and bottom that gets cropped off when the player is set to 16:9 and the television is in Wide mode. After putting some masking tape on the television to compare, about 1.25" on both the top and bottom of the image is cropped off. My player is a Pioneer DV-333 non-progressive scan. I've also tried the Sony DVP-NS315 player with exactly the same results, so I know that the player is not causing any problems.

    -Matt
     
  12. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Electronic masking is called blanking ... vertical blanking ... horizontal blanking ... top blk bottom blk ...

    Sometimes these parameters are in the SM ... sometimes they are hidden in an engineering menu ... which is not generally accessible.

    think blk or parameters that kinda looks like that

    Regards
     
  13. Matt C

    Matt C Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the info Michael, I'll take a look. I checked on my service manual, and it should be here within the next two days, so hopefully that will help clear all of this up

    -Matt
     

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