Samsung Player "bobs" to 1080P???

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by DaViD Boulet, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    It sure sounds like it from this comparison of 1080p out of the Sammy against the Pioneer by Bill Hunt and the Pioneer guys:

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents



    A bit of back-story,

    the Sammy is decoding all HD internally into 1080i even from "progressive" sources like 1080p24 mastered Blu-ray discs. This probably makes it easier for the Sammy to deliver a constant 1080i60 stream from mixed sources...like discs that contain film content, video, and 480 film/video originated material. For 1080i output this would not result in any drop in quality (versus decoding into progressive then interlacing).

    The danger is when it goes to provide a "progressive scan" output from this interlaced signal... how is it generating the 1080P? The same rules for producing 480p from 480i apply to making 1080p from 1080i. Exactly the same.

    If the Sammy deinterlaced properly using inverse telecine to convert the 1080i60 into 1080p24/48/60 there would be no problem.

    However, it seems the Sammy may be "bobbing" to deinterlace which means it just doubles each line in the interlaced signal to fill-in-the-gaps. This basically cuts your effective vertical resolution in 1/2 (perceived resolution drops to about 540P vertically). I had hoped that the Samsung was producing real 1080p with 3-2 pulldown reversal for proper frame reconstruction. Seems it might be whimping out after all and just "bobbing" to fake 1080p just to get the "1080p" logo on the box.
     
  2. Reagan

    Reagan Supporting Actor

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    Another HD disappointment. Based on my understanding, this is the same reason that 720p doesn't look as good as it should from this and the Tosh. Assuming one wants a 60fps output (not always the case), the processing should go:

    1080p @24fps (as is encoded on disc) -to- [email protected] (with a 3:2 cadence) -to- desired output format 1080p/1080i/or 720p (downconverting 1080p to 720p is a snap).

    This and the Tosh appear to handling things like any basic HD set top box:
    the 1080p 24fps data on disc is first converted to 1080i and never properly deinterlaced for a progressive format (1080p/720p).

    -R
     
  3. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    Reagan,

    I hadn't connected the dots but you're right... this is also how the Toshiba HD DVD player is decoding (directly into 1080i) which is why it has an inferior image via 720P out... it's basically "bobbing" to 1080p and then downscaling... dropping the vertical resolution to an effective 540 vertical elements.

    Good call about the similarities. This is why Toshiba recommends always using the 1080i output regardless of the resolution of the PJ if the PJ can accept 1080i.

    You're right about the theoretically ideal way to have the signal path (either that or proper inverse telecine for deinterlacing).

    The Pioneer produces true 1080p output so that's a good sign.
     
  4. Brian_Pete

    Brian_Pete Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm assuming that all BD movie reviews have been done using the Samsung player. Does this mean that the reviews of the currently released discs may be affected once the Pioneer player gets to the market?
     
  5. TedD

    TedD Supporting Actor

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    If this is real issue, there is a simple solution. Feed the display a 1080I signal. If it still does it, then this is not the issue. This doesn't explain the wormy, noisy, crawlie backgrounds, though....

    Ted
     
  6. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    Good point Ted.

    BTW, which discs given you those noisy background. Did Underworld? It looked clean-as-a-whistle on the Ruby to my eyes.
     
  7. TedD

    TedD Supporting Actor

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    No, it was House Of The Flying Artifacts... uh ... Daggers. Saw it on a Sony SXRD RP at CC yesterday. (after I coerced the salesman to take out the demo disc and play a real movie). Or the loss of resolution on fast movement. It wasn't pretty.....

    Ted
     

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