Samsung BR player with possible defect or is it the real problem? See Post #25 (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Take a look at the link below.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...&page_number=1

 

[Pete T C]

Yep, looks like it is the Blu-Ray software/movies that are the problem.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

Very interesting. Also interesting is that Sony confirmed they will be reissuing THE 5TH ELEMENT. I wonder if they'll let those of us who purchased this title a free replacement?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Crawdaddy,

Great link. THANKS. It seems to point to BD authoring/compression (MPEG2 25gig) as being the primary source of problems given the subtle difference with the "fixed" DNR setting.

Thanks for sharing that link... nice to hear some actual first-hand reports fromm some independent viewers!!!

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Good that the article pointed out that the issue was not a bug at all ... nor a defect.

Engineering decision.

If they went the other way off the bat, would people complain of excessive grain? The decision was not made in a vacuum.

Still, it's good that the user will be given a choice ... after the firmware revision.

Regards

 

[Lew Crippen]

I’m not sure how you get excessive grain. Are you suggesting that the engineering decision was not to add grain other than that present in the original films (which seems strange to include a filter to remove something not present), or was it to remove grain that was present in the movies?

If that is the case, I suggest that what is termed an engineering decision actually turns out to be an artistic one, just as deciding to change the color balance or contrast from the original film to the new media would be.

In other words, why remove the grain at all?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Sometimes choices are made ... I'm sure if we looked at all the other choices they have to make in the design of the player ... we'd find a whole bunch more artistic/engineering choices too ... not just in the Samsung camp but in every other camp as well.

We're not about to open that can of worms are we?

Regards

 

[Lew Crippen]

Well regardless of which company makes a decision that changes the artistic intent of a movie, I’d expect that it should be challenged.

I still don’t understand ‘excessive grain’.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Guys,

Samsung didn't plan this on purpose at all. That's just "spin" in their public statement.

They were as surprised as many of us when it was discovered that the chip defaulted to max DNR and was set this way in all their players.

And yes, hardware processing high-end video like this is not acceptable. It's the job of the playback hardware to show you what is matered on the disc... not make subjective decisions about how to change it.

Would we accept it if there were DSP "noise reduction" circuits built into our high-end SACD players to try to filter out analog tape hiss from our Muddy Waters 60's recordings?

Of course not. A hi-fidelity signal should be preserved, not processed. It's the job of the disc mastering to ensure that what's on the disc is what should be there (grain and all). It's the job of the consumer playback system to reveal it, not change it by default to suit some supposed consumer taste.

IMO, the consumers purchasing these first-gen HD products tend to be educated and understand the nature of film grian and the film process and dont' expect their copy of Aliens to look clean like Toy Story or Revenge of the Sith. Again, that Sammy quote is just spin for them trying to not look like they didn't understand how their own product was performing.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Lew, it's just based on the article where it mentions that they wanted to decrease the grain level. Thereby extending the logic that they must have felt some out there would think things too grainy if they did not do it.

Anyhow ... the difference between the off and on position appears to be very subtle based on what the article says. Hardly a horrors! ... the world is coming to an end reaction that many have alluded to.

Personally, I find that the good stuff still looks very good ... Stealth looks nice ... Underworld looks nice ... Ultraviolet looks nice in its own strange way.

Regards

 

[Robert Crawford]

Samsung is doing spin control than what do you call what Sony is saying?





Crawdaddy

 

[DaViD Boulet]

That's spin too. It's sony's spin to try to make it sound like the poor PQ of these early BDs is all Samsung's fault when the majority of blame lies with their piss-poor transfers, mastering, compression, and disc authoring.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Something disturbing about partners going after each other at this early stage.

Regards

 

[Robert Crawford]

I just wanted a fair assessment of what's being said by all parties.





Crawdaddy

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Crawdaddy,

rest assured my comments about one party don't indicate "opposite" thoughts about another.



Michael,

very insightful. Yes.

 

[Robert Crawford]

And they're pissing me off because I have a Blu-ray player that I'm keeping, but I have reevaluated my plans to not buy any further BRD until better software is provided to me.





Crawdaddy

 

[Lew Crippen]

They may be partners in Blu-Ray (and other ventures), but let us not forget that they are also fierce competitors, especially in the non-game, hardware area. It is in Sony’s interests to get interested Blu-Ray consumers to wait on their player purchases until Sony arrives with their own models (of course this is a bit dangerous, as they also want to keep up overall interest in the format).

But in the end, better I think to shift any early problem blame to a competitor that they don’t need to rely upon for software product.

 

[DBWestCoast]

A severe case of denial! Circuit City continues to sell the Samsung BDP-1000 Blu-ray DVD Player (some with the faulty Genesis chip) without letting the public know that this player needs to have a firmware download to correct the "noise softening" problem that renders the picture to just normal DVD quality.

I bought a Samsung Blu-ray player (BDP-1000) at Circuit City in September and went back to Circuit City just a week past my "30-day return" timeframe ... CC will not take the player back and they refused to acknowledge that there was any problem with the BDP 1000 player. I had to go directly to Samsung to get a straight answer. Samsung was very forthright about the issue and is sending me a CD with a firmware "fix". We'll see if this helps to correct to picture quality. Jury is out.

I am plenty miffed at Circuit City as they simply will not admit to ANY problem with the Samsung BDP-1000 notwithstanding that I presented them with overwhelming/ample evidence (articles, blogs and more). I believe (my opinion) that Circuit City has known about the Samsung BDP-1000 Genesis chip problem since July of 2006, yet they apparently have not communicated anything down to the store level. Hence past and prospective purchasers of the BDP-1000 could be miss-informed about their purchase.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I don't think any retailers are forthright about the possible problems with the Sammy, Dan. In fact, Samsung themselves are advertising their player like crazy in the current audio/video mags, and there is no mention of this issue.

 

[DBWestCoast]

Yep Larry ... My guess is that Circuit City is not alone in keeping the Samsung Blu-ray player out on the floor. When I called Samsung they asked me to read back my Blu-ray player serial number ... this confirmed to them that my player was one of the defective units. Again, I will credit Samsung for being very straightforward about the defect. What really aggravates me is Circuit City’s flat out refusal to acknowledge that there is any problem with the player. This gives them “plausible deniability” about their role in miss-representing this product to the public. Yet it is truly implausible (my opinion) that Samsung would publicly disclose the problem (in July 2006) with their Blu-ray player without first or concurrently notifying its largest retail distribution channels – the big box electronics retailers (Circuit City, et. al.). In my opinion, there had to be a flurry of memos and meetings at Samsung and at high levels within Circuit City and discussions about what to do. The answer (based on my experience) is to “do nothing and deny.”