Sales swindle: "We're selling this so cheap, Denon won't honor the warranty"? (1 Viewer)

[Steve_D]

Ajay,
Except you are forgetting that Denon allows that stuff to go on, and builds it into their volume discount structure, and words their warranty so the consumer has an explicit choice, pay more now or risk problems. This way Denon has their cake and eats it too.
Todd,
I hate to tell you something, but the warranty IS written so that only the original purchaser can enforce the waranty, though again sometimes manufacturers out of goodwill depending on the circumstances will still honor the warranty, but they do not have to.
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[AjayM]

I hate to tell you something, but the warranty IS written so that only the original purchaser can enforce the waranty, though again sometimes manufacturers out of goodwill depending on the circumstances will still honor the warranty, but they do not have to.

Simply bring the unit to a service center and say you lost the reciept...if the unit is a US version (most of them are), and is still within the warranty from the Manufactures date or date in service (note you lose a couple months here), they have to honor their warranty...unless they can prove you bought it some place else, etc.
Andrew
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[David Susilo]

Jay_E
Totally agree with you. Should Denon have the unit's serial number on their USA product list, then it can not be considered as grey market.
The best solution is to write down the serial number, call Denon ask them to do a search for serial number existence, and if they said that the serial number is in their system, it's a legit product.

 

[Jim Howard]

I called Denon just now.
The customer service rep confirmed my suspicion: The dealer I spoke to was not an authorized dealer, therefore Denon won't honor the warranty.
He said basically the dealer in question didn't buy directly from Denon, and that they probably bought it from another whole seller.
I personally feel a warrantied Denon product should be a warrantied Denon product no matter where I buy it. But a contract is a contract. Not all companies take such a cavalier attitude about their warranties. I mailed a a hard drive back to IBM that had broken within in the term of warranty. I sent no receipt, just the unit. within 2 weeks, they had airmailed me a replacement, no questions asked. Moral of the story: if a company truly believes in their product, and is committed to customer satisfaction, then they will respect their warranty without hessitation.
I've reconsidered all future purchase of Denon products.
-Jim

 

[Jim Howard]

The sales associate told me that Denon would be able to trace the serial number of the unit and would know that I didn't buy it from an authorized dealer. They would not authorize the deal.
Basically I think this boils down to Denon price fixing its product. I don't like it. I'm looking into other brands.

 

[Ryan Wright]

Well, that's BS. I'll never buy a Denon product after reading this (and other threads on the subject). Never. Not even if Denon was the final word in Home Theater.
Products should be warranted regardless of where you brought them, period. What does it matter to Denon? They got their money for the product. It's not like they sold at a discount for a lack of warranty service. They do this because they don't like the "grey market", but at the same time, they encourage it by the way they set wholesale prices and by not doing a damn thing to prevent it.
As Jim said, it boils down to them attempting to fix prices, and it's pure bullshit. They won't get a single cent from me.
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-Ryan (http://www.ryanwright.com )
Ok, I admit it: I set you up the bomb.

 

[MatthewJ S]

I love denon products and have always sold them proudly(also owned more than a few).But can tell you that enough of my fellow sales associates have had it with people who do not know the equipment as well as all of you clearly do (this ,by the way is the majority of our customers)and others who know the equipment but need to hear it somewher and come to them and take up their time .So these salesmen (and women) start to reccomend other brands that aren't as whored out on-line.Denon,still doing most of its buisness(by a huge majoriy)in B&M's, is begining to hear about it through they dealers and are starting to feel the pinch.so, they are at least trying to give the illusion of dealer support by insisting on all units that are brought in for repair have receipts....now, given that the company that I work for is among the top 2 or 3 denon dealers in the country we see a lot of denon products and I KNOW EXACTLY (GIVE OR TAKE 3-5%)HOW MUCH A UNIT COSTS AND THERE IS PROBABLY NO DEALERS BUYING SIGNIFICANTLY MORE OF THEIR PRODUCT TO RATE A BETTER PRICE. Yet, I often see on-line deals below dealer cost.I could explain why this happens ,but I think we've heard these reasons given before .so, my company ,which is publicly held, posts an after tax profit of @ 3.4% ,so ,needless to say discounting away ones profit QUICKLY becomes a problem ...if you begrudge us 3.4% then you should definately shop on-line but understand that the manufacturers need us and will "try" to give the appearance of helping us (even though in the short term they make the same no matter who sells it!).
P.S. I shop on-line for some things too and don't want consumer electronic e-tailers to go away (just maybe cleanup their acts)

 

[Bill Broderick]

The sales associate told me that Denon would be able to trace the serial number of the unit and would know that I didn't buy it from an authorized dealer.

The only way Denon could do this would be if THEY (Denon) had sold the unit to an unauthorized dealer themselves. If the unit had been sold sideways (an authorized dealer sold it to an unauthorized dealer) then Denon's database would have the AUTHORIZED dealer that they sold it to.
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[AjayM]

Well, that's BS. I'll never buy a Denon product after reading this (and other threads on the subject). Never. Not even if Denon was the final word in Home Theater.
Products should be warranted regardless of where you brought them, period. What does it matter to Denon? They got their money for the product. It's not like they sold at a discount for a lack of warranty service. They do this because they don't like the "grey market", but at the same time, they encourage it by the way they set wholesale prices and by not doing a damn thing to prevent it.

Are you then never going to buy another Sony, Pioneer, Mitsubishi, Kenwood, ....they all have the same policies in place, some are more stringent than others, but the policy still exists. All of them want to do something to try and protect the B&M store over the internet store. But as you said, it's all fluff because the problem can be dealt with...but it isn't.
Andrew
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[Henry Carmona]

If it's an A-stock item (meaning meant to be sold in the US), they have to warranty it. It's just that simple. That from DenonDave himself.

This is an interesting subject. I sure would like to know in what context Denon Dave made that statement, if it is in fact true.
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"Charlie don't surf."

 

[Brian_J]

I find this topic to be very humorous every time it comes up (and it seems to come up at least once or twice a month on each forum). Yet, I have not ever seen a post from anyone, anywhere, who was denied service from Denon. I have heard lots of rumor and second hand innuendo back and forth. Its rather like the boogie man. "If you buy from them (on line) Denon will tell you to stuff it".
Thousands of the 3801's were sold on line. Either none of them broke or no one is being denied service. Where are the posts from people denied service? I have on the other hand, seen posts from people who did buy online and said that Denon fixed their units, no questions asked.
Me, I would like to know that Denon will stand behind my unit. But if they dont...I'll get angry and I may take my business elsewhere in the future. But you know what? I saved $350 when I bought my 3801 over the lowest price I could find locally. The average repair cost is going to be less than half that. So even if I knew in advance that every manufacturer would not honor their warranties for on line goods I would still buy on line because I can self insure. Folks, if you cannot afford to self insure you should not be buying this stuff anyway.
But that would not excuse Denon. But again, I ask where are the posts from people denied service by Denon? Given the lack, the bottom line is that Denon is covering the warranties. I doubt they could afford the negative publicity if they did otherwise.
Brian
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Zed's Dead Baby...

 

[Carlo_M]

I keep hearing Buck Swope say:
"You can't get that without the TK-421 modification. We do that for you right here, in the store, very low price...

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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com

 

[Paul_Psutka]

"The typical murk up for Denon products are 40%,so you got room for "negotiating".This whole fiasco about warranty is ti protect the dealers and Denon's image.It's never been about something for nothing or Denon would loose money at all. Not to mention Denon products tend to be reliable."
I think you mean dealer cost is 40% less than list price? there's a big difference between saying the list price of $1200 is 40% above dealer cost VS. the dealer cost is 40% less than $1200.
$857 vs. $720.

 

[TomH]

Take a look at the list of "authorized dealers" on the Denon web site. So these are the only places you can purchase from and get warranty? It appears that unauthorized sources may outnumber the authorized dealers by a factor of 10 to one or even more. So Denon is able to sell massive quantities of product in the US and avoid warranty responsibility on most of it? I don't think so. Denon can specify anything they like in their warranty but they are still bound by the legal system.
1. Yes, Denon does deny service and there have been many posts about it.
2. What percentage of Denon customers are forum members?
Maybe 1 or 2 percent at best?
3. Protect yourself by using Visa or another card that can reverse the charges if you get a lemon. Many credit cards include extended warranties.
4. File a local small claims suit if a company denies service.
The big problem is that most customers are unaware of this issue and they simply shop the net for a good price. Nearly all dealers appear to be legitimate resellers.
By the way, Sound City explicitly states that they are an authorized Denon dealer.
Tom

 

[David Susilo]

You guys got it all wrong. Grey market product is NOT product sold by Denon USA to wholesaler A then to unauthorized dealer B. Grey market products ARE product sourced from OTHER than Denon USA.
Therefore, as long as your serial number matches Denon USA database, they will service it.
I know this as a fact that Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer do this ALL the time (checking the serial number for a match in their database).
However, just 'to make things easier', they just mention that the product not sold by an authorized dealer won't have any warranty. It sure beats telling the customer to check the serial number of every product about to be sold and call the manufacturer to match the number to their database.
I know that the policy will more strongly affects PC peripherals and pro products, at least in my experience

 

[TomH]

David,
So the real issue may be that people are sold grey market goods instead of A stock. This would foster the idea that:
1. Denon is denying service on goods from unauthorized dealers when in fact they are simply denying service on grey market units based on the serial #
2. You must purchase from an "authorized dealer" to get a warranty when in fact you can purchase anywhere as long as it is USA A stock.
How do you know what you are actually getting? I am sure Walmart doesnt even really know if their shipment is legit.
Are the grey market boxes stamped "Not for USA sales, No USA warranty included" in 6" font?
Tom

 

[Lewis Besze]

I think you mean dealer cost is 40% less than list price? there's a big difference between saying the list price of $1200 is 40% above dealer cost VS. the dealer cost is 40% less than $1200

Yes dealer cost is 40% less.1200-480=720
So how did you get $857? That's only 28.5% less then $1200!
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"You Hungarians always disagree"

 

[John Morris]

Why not contact the manufacturer first, before you buy, and let them make the purchase decision for you. I do this all the time and not one company I have contacted told me to buy their competitors item instead. Here is an example of what I do: after doing my research and testing I decide on a couple of receivers. Let's say that one is a Denon 3801 and the other is a Sony ES receiver. After shopping I find that both receivers cost approximately the same, and both are within my budget, but only if I buy the Denon from an online dealer. So, I then call Denon, carefully documenting my call, and just ask them which receiver I should buy. If they say their receiver, I tell them that I can only afford it if I buy from aBConline.com a non authorized dealer. If they tell me they will not honor the warranty from that dealer, I ask them if they can recommend an authorized dealer who will match that price. Most times, they recommend a dealer who will at least come close to that price. Other times, they gave me the name and phone number of a regional wholesaler who they will allow to sell to me directly for that price. In the rare instance that they stand their ground. I once again clarify that they are then telling me to buy the competitors item instead of their own due to their warranty stance. If they say yes, I ask to talk to their supervisor and ask him/her if they too agree that I should buy the Sony reciever instead of theirs. If the supervisor agrees, I then send a letter to a corporate officer of Denon detailing the fact that two of their employees recommended that I buy a Sony instead of their unit. If that still doesn't work, then I just never buy any of their stuff. I simply refuse to deal with crooks who fix prices... This process has also worked with companies whose used equipment I am considering buying. On many occasions, the companies have even verified the age of the unit and if the warranty is still valid for me prior to my purchasing that unit. Finally, when I bought my latest receiver, a refurbed 1801 from Ubid, I called and made sure that Denon would honor the warranty. They told me that they did... does that make Ubid an authorized dealer???

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Take Care,
merc

 

[Brian_J]

2. What percentage of Denon customers are forum members?

The rate of failure would be the same for forum members as for non forum members. Given the proclivity of people on these sites to complain about DVD rot, rough layer changes, poor bass, etc., I think we'd see a few posts if they were denied a warranty repair!
Brian
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Zed's Dead Baby...

 

[MatthewJ S]

I certainly agree that a $350 savings does buy oneself the ability to eat a repair, so that purchase makes sense to the guy who can set that money aside (meaning you could afford to pay retail if you wanted to anyway). The gentleman who bought a refurb 1801 , though ,seems to have an elaborate method for insuring that his once repaired $180(?) receiver is covered by warranty....I think ,however ,that we are loosing sight of the long term prospects of this scenario; more intellegent consumers know that they must listen to equip. to determine sound quality so they will continue to go to B&M's who will frequently demo brand "x" but rarely sell it so the B&m will stop selling them for whatever they feel is behind the decline, manufacturer will loose money because B&M's are their mainstay and the will make changes in their product based on some unknown lack of retail sales ...Enjoy the proliferation of e-tailers now cause eventually something is gonna give..........