Sack the DTS/DD track on DVD-A discs?

Discussion in 'Music' started by ReggieW, Oct 28, 2003.

  1. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    The thread title says it all. I think, imho, that it would be better for the format if the DVD-A forum/labels decided to drop the lossy formats from the disc and instead give us 24/192 stereo (or whatever the native sample rate may be), 24/96 surround, and more features and video content. I believe the inclusion of the lossy formats have done much to confuse the public to exactly what DVD-A is. Most people I speak with simply think that DVD-A IS one of the lossy formats that play music in surround and that's it. MLP and advanced resolution stereo/surround? Most are clueless and simply don't know what this is. This may sound snobbish, but I would love to see lossy formats on DVD-A discs eventually abolished. I know classic records will start issuing their titles in 24/192 stereo with no lossy formats piggy-backed on board. DVD-A players are now at price points where anyone who can afford a DVD player can afford one, so I feel the need for lossy formats have lessened. Afterall, with SACD, you simply have to have an SACD player to play SACD discs, other than the discs being hybrids, there are no exceptions. It should be the same for DVD-A as well. Anyway, what do you all think?

    Reg
     
  2. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Absolutely not.

    The goal is for sound to come out of any DVD player, whether it be DVD-Audio capable or not.

    Regards,
     
  3. PhilBoy

    PhilBoy Second Unit

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    Perhaps ignorance is bliss, but I enjoy the dts tracks on the one DVD-A and 2 DVD-V's that I own... On the 2 DVD-V,s I play them with the picture off.

    Until the analog-out-only paranoia on DVD-A & SACD is relaxed, dts & DD are refreshing to people like me who do not have a true Hi-Res set up.

    I think DVD-A sales would be half of what they are now if some tiles were not 'universal' and playable on existing HT equipment.
     
  4. PhilBoy

    PhilBoy Second Unit

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    Sorry... bad call when I said sales would be half.

    Let's just say less...:b
     
  5. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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  6. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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    A terrible idea.

    Considering the ubiquity of DVD-video players, this is what makes the DVD-A format a hybrid one (though it doesn't address the "car problem").

    If it was up to me, I'd include a non-MLP encoded, non copy protected 24/96 stereo track (you know, a "DAD" track), DTS and DD-5.1 surround tracks, 24/192 MLP stereo and 24/96 MLP surround tracks on every disc.

    And forget the video content if it won't fit. This is a music format, after all. Or, at least, I wish it was.
     
  7. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

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    I think John hit it right talking about the goals of the DVD-A format. Personally, although not likely practical, I'd like to see them require that all discs are authored to the spec that allows switching of stereo to multi-channel via the audio button. I'd like to see less video content vs. having lower disc prices. If I want a concert DVD-V, I'll buy one. The whole music industry is hurting and if they want hi-rez to succeed, they need to get it to the public at better prices.
     
  8. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Phil,

    I agree with your comments WRT authoring, and what you mention is in the v1.1 spec.

    I've shown this to a couple of smaller labels that release DVD-As and they've shown interest, however interest does not equal usage of the new authoring techniques.

    Regards,
     
  9. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Good points guys.

    John,

    What do you think of Classics Records (I believe they used to make the 24/96 DAD's) decison to include 24/192 only and none of the other lossy formats?

    Reg
     
  10. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Reg,

    Classic hasn't released any of their DVD-Audio titles yet, and I would be terribly surprised if they didn't include a 24/96K Linear PCM track for backwards compatibility with DVD-V players.

    I have no problems with bypassing the DD/DTS tracks, so long as DVD Forum standards for soundtracks (either DD or PCM mandatory) is adhered to for said compatibility.

    Having a stereo 24/96K Linear PCM track in VIDEO_TS fits that requirement.

    Regards,
     
  11. Jeremy Anderson

    Jeremy Anderson Screenwriter

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    I own several DVD-A's right now but don't have a DVD-A player, nor will I until I'm able to upgrade my gear. But I'm happy that I get to hear multichannel mixes of stuff in the meantime, so my vote is to keep it. It's a good way to transition to the new format.
     
  12. Michael St. Clair

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    1) Removing backwards compatibility would be terrible for sales.

    2) The DD/DTS tracks are pretty small compared to the lossless tracks. Removing them wouldn't free too much room.

    I will agree with not including more than one lossy 5.1 track. Either DD or DTS, but not both.
     
  13. gene c

    gene c Producer

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    Even though I am without a Hi-Res player I still have purchased a dozen DVD-A' yet I have no SACD's. Have you guessed why yet? Because multi-channel is what I'm hooked on. While Pro-Logic, Neo:6 and Logic 7 are good at what they do, they are still no match for true 5.1. Even after I get a Hi-Res player I still won't be able to buy many SACD's as some of them are only 2-channel ("Boston" comes to mind). I think "PhilBoy" was right the first time. DVD-A sales would be 100% less to me without the DD and DTS tracks. Anyway, thanks for the thread. We actually learn more by diss-agreeing with each other. It brings more opinions to the table. Gene
     
  14. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Oh, I don't necessarily disagree with what I'm hearing here, the point of the thread was just to see what people thought as I've heard this proposed by many an audiophile.

    Reg
     
  15. gene c

    gene c Producer

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    Sorry if my reply seemed a bit strong but you kinda hit a nerve with that thread. Other than a few DTS discs and some "live" concert dvd's, there is no other way for those of us who lack a hi-res player to get true 5.1 sound. And as I said before, I'm hooked! So even the mention of removing the DD or DTS layers are fightin' words to me! (just joking of course). Anyway, a universal player is on my list of things to do but untill then DVD-A are all I can use. Gene p.s. I still liked the thread though.
     

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