SACD,DVD-A DEAD due to analogue outs? (1 Viewer)

[Jack Gilvey]

He is very intelligent by the way, just not into home theater to the extent we are.

IMO, the former implies the latter.

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[Charles Gurganus]

Kevin C Brown said...
"Why did CD effectively kill the lp:
a) sound quality (although this can be argued)
b) convenience
c) cost
d) marketing"
Basically what killed the LP was the industry. They STOPPED making LP's (for the most part) and making them easily available. So if you wanted NEW music, you were FORCED to go with CD's.
Also, how is COST a plus factor FOR CD's? Last time I checked, CD's are way overpriced. CD's cost more to buy than LP's ever did. The only cost plus for CD's was in favor of the manufactures. They make far more money with CD's as they are overcharging for the product. They make a FAR higher profit margin on CD's than LP's. So MONEY (read greed) was a big reason for the industry FORCING the CD's on the public.
Convenience is really the ONLY thing that the CD has over the LP. We are a lazy society.

 

[John Kotches]

Charles,
Lumped in with the cost of manufacture is the "reject rate".
I would venture to say that there were far more LP rejects due to defective pressings and warped out of the sleeve than is the case with digital media.
Digital information is more robust than analog information, so it can be transported, manipulated etc etc easier than analog. I think these are factors as well in the big conversion.
Regards,

 

[Charles Gurganus]

John, I am not really sure what you mean by "robust".
All I can say is the best "source" for any given musical track is still considered to be the analog source master tapes. SACD is getting positive reviews because "it comes closest to the analog LP" (when the LP is done right).
I've always felt that music is meant to be analog. The instruments themselves are analog (at least the ones I like). The master tapes are on a analog medium. VERY few cd's use the DDD process as most are still AAD, with the final digital step losing what made it sound great in the first place.
Now don't get me wrong, I have some great sounding CD's but when the LP is done right, it is still my choice. I know I am in the minority but thats ok.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I think that the cd has every advantage except better sound. There's a good reason that the LP has not only survived, but has had a resurgence.
I think John meant "robust" in the sense of less chance for degradation from copying, editing, and other manipulation.
I agree, Charles, that music is meant to be analog. I also have found it interesting, and have stated as much, that folks (and Sony) compare SACD to LP as the "standard".
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[John Kotches]

Jaleel,
I disagree with you for a few reasons, mostly due to my personal experiences. Now granted, I haven't had my experiences validated by any scientific DBT so they probably aren't real.
How well do we really understand the nature of perception? The brain is a marvelously complicated piece of work, and to say that all differences boils down to an a/b/x test is certainly something that you're welcome to believe. Please do not impose this point of view on me.
The brain acts as a marvelous filter and we are selectively able to filter out various and sundry pieces and only when reexposed do we notice the filtered item.
Here's an example for you: In some areas of the US people burn leaves in the fall. You really notice it in the air for the first 10 or 15 minutes, then all of a sudden it's gone from our senses. Why? Because the brain has built a remarkably effective filter for the scent. Go away for a couple of hours and come back, all of a sudden the scent is back, because the brain has disengaged the filter. In another few minutes, the filter is back in place.
And yet, if we were to somehow construct an A/B/X test that involved this mechanism I wouldn't at all be surprised that after 15 minutes or so we'd probably end up in an "everything smells the same" type result.
This is not to say that an A/B/X test doesn't have its place, but only as one tool in the arsenal.
Regards,
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John Kotches
Contributing Writer
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[John Kotches]

Jack,
Thanks for clarifying my earlier "robust" commentary. That was the point I intended to make initially, but failed to do so.
Charles,
I also agree that analog tapes are awfully good to work with. Check out Bob Ludwig's work coming out of Gateway Mastering, he still prefers to receive the tapes for mastering in the analog domain.
I've heard excellent and atrocious sounding examples of LP, CD, DVD-A and SACD -- no format is immune to bad sound unfortunately.
Regards,
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John Kotches
Contributing Writer
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[Lewis Besze]

I've always felt that music is meant to be analog.

I'agree,since that's the only way you can hear it ,however I have serious reservations about tunrtables[technicaly],and so are the millions who have switched from them.
I'm sure they were quiet a wonder a 100 years ago,however even they have "evolved",the core idea is the same.
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"You Hungarians always disagree"

 

[Jack Gilvey]

quote: I'm sure they were quiet a wonder a 100 years ago,however even they have "evolved",the core idea is the same.[/quote]
And thank God for that. Looks like CD has 80 years of evolving before it even catches up.

quote: I have serious reservations about tunrtables[technicaly][/quote]
Me, too, but they sound so much better, I don't really worry about it.
quote: and so are the millions who have switched from them.[/quote]
Yeah, and they prefer full-screen, too. The "great unwashed" are after anything but better sound, so I don't worry too much about those millions.
Lewis, what is your quote from?
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[Edited last by Jack Gilvey on October 26, 2001 at 10:34 PM]

 

[Lewis Besze]

quote: And thank God for that. Looks like CD has 80 years of evolving before it even catches up.[/quote]
Jack, my argument is objective on the delivery device[turtable]only,I have no problem that you preffering the sound of the TT,however a CD player easily outperforms a TT on every test we have concived for such purpose.Oh yeah those info for your brain not for your ear

quote:
Me, too, but they sound so much better, I don't really worry about it.
[/quote]
Like I said!
quote: Yeah, and they prefer full-screen, too.[/quote]
C'mon Jack you're smarter then that

quote: The "great unwashed" are after anything but better sound, so
I don't worry too much about those millions.[/quote]
Me neither!
quote: Lewis, what is your quote from?[/quote]
What quote?
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"You Hungarians always disagree"
[Edited last by Lewis Besze on October 27, 2001 at 02:53 AM]

 

[John Morris]

or maybe next time I'll go to the gym,I'll just strap on a turn table on my waist,

Louis: wow, you go to a gym?
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Take Care,
merc
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God Bless America!!!

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Well, I've found turntable discussions on home theater boards to be largely unsatisfying and predictable. I respect you and your opinions, so I'll leave it at that. Fwiw, I have no problem with you preferring the sound of CD.
This quote: "You Hungarians always disagree."
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[RobertR]

Robert, have you conducted a double-blind test to prove the Bedini Clarifier offers no benefit?

No, for the same reason I haven't tested this:
http://www.randi.org/jr/08-24-01.html
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[Lewis Besze]

Jack,that quote is from the "English Patient".
Knowing our people[and myself] I found that quote very true.

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"You Hungarians always disagree"