Running sound in a gift shop at a local hospital

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeremy Hegna, Nov 20, 2001.

  1. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    Hello Friends,

    I have been asked by a friend at work's wife to install some speakers in her gift store. I would estimate it to be 3500 cubic feet with extremely high ceilings.

    There are several tall support pillars that will be easy to mount the speakers on and conceal the wire, but I am clueless on what speakers to look at and what kind of power I should put in.

    The budget is $1000, preferably less. I can get away with four speakers to get sound into the entire room, and keep in mind, the sound will be low volume...kinda background music.

    My initial idea would be to buy a receiver that has a 5 channel stereo function like Denon, or circle surround. She definitely wants a CD player and tuner. Any ideas are gladly appreciated.

    Jeremy
     
  2. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    Something I forgot to mention.
    She would like it to be aesthitically pleasing. The B&W Leisure Monitors look good and can be mounted. They are $350 a pair, though.
    Ideas? Does Bose make a simple system like this? How about other manufacturers? I don't need DD, DTS, inputs/outputs, etc...just 4 channel stereo and a CD player[​IMG]
    Jer
     
  3. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

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    Well, why don't you just get a stereo receiver with A/B speaker outputs? You don't need fancy 5-channel stereo modes to get sound out of 4 speakers. Here's an option - the Onkyo TX-8211, a 50 wpc stereo receiver with two sets of speaker outputs. The only constraint is, it needs 8 ohm speakers when driving both outputs, but that shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure the 8211 is still in production, but I bought it for $180 new a year ago. I think the 8511, its 100 wpc bigger brother, is still in production - $250 from most places. I thought the 8211 sounded pretty good. Of course, there are many options from 'lesser' manufacturers than Onkyo too, but if you're getting B&W (or equivalent) speakers, I wouldn't hook them up with an RCA receiver [​IMG]
     
  4. Jeff Loughridge

    Jeff Loughridge Stunt Coordinator

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    One word of caution about hiding the speaker wires. Be very careful. ASCAP and BMI licensing Nazis look for mom & pop shops like that. As I recall, you do not owe licensing fees if the system is simply placed there, i.e. wires run to speakers in view, speakers and receiver on shelf or other support, not permanently attached.

    If you "install" the system, mount the speakers and fish the wires out of view, they may be paid a visit, and given a hefty bill.

    This even applies when playing a radio station.

    This post represents my opinion only, and is in no way representative of anything else.

    Jeff Loughridge
     
  5. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    Wayne
    Jeremy,

    I assume you mean 3500 square feet?

    Is sound quality an issue? If not, consider doing a professional installation, that is, one a commercial audio company would do. I used to do gigs like this all the time.

    This would consist of so-called “ceiling speakers,” flush-mounted into the ceiling tiles (presuming that is the ceiling?). You can pick some up at a local sound contractor, or maybe on e-bay. Make sure they have the support frames included.

    For power, what is typically used is a 70-volt amp. The amp sends a constant-voltage signal to the speakers, which have transformers mounted to them. You can tap the transformer for the power and volume desired, usually from 0.5 to perhaps 10 watts (for instance, a speaker in a bathroom would be tapped at a lower voltage than those on the sales floor). TOA is the premier manufacturer of 70-volt amps. If the price for a new TOA amp is too steep, you can regularly find them on e-bay.

    The amplifier’s power rating, coupled with the power each speaker is tapped at will determine how many speakers the amp will run. For instance, a 60-watt amp will drive 6 speakers tapped at 10 watts, 12 tapped at 5 watts, etc. It’s okay to mix and match wattage’s, keeping the amp’s total power in mind.

    The amp is just that, however; you will have to provide a program source-- tuner, CD player, etc.

    For speaker wiring, if above the ceiling is a common air return, you will need to use plenum-rated speaker wire.

    And Jeff has a point about the ASCAP people. What your friend might do is play exclusively “inde” releases, that is, music from unsigned groups who produce and sell their own music. There is plenty of that on the Internet. Or, perhaps music so old it is public domain. ASCAP has no control either kinds of music.

    Regards,

    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  6. Tim Kilbride

    Tim Kilbride Stunt Coordinator

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    I also agree you may want to look at a professional installer. There are a couple of issues to be covered. A round ceiling type speaker would definitely be a cleaner look. Tannoy offers some great speakers just for this type of install that have awesome sound reproduction. Other issues might be that you will have to interface with the emergency announcement system (fire evacuation) because it is a public facility. Another issue is whether the area above the ceiling is a return air cavity for the HVAC. If it is, you will have to use plenum type approved cabling.

    As for ASCAP, usually if you just run a feed from a local radio station, it shouldn't be a problem, their fees are covered by the station. It's when you play CD's that there is an issue. You also may want to look at the radio feed of the digital cable system. I'm sure the hospital has cable in it. If you do install, look at the 70V Cambridge Sound Works system @ Parts Express. Great sound at a decent price. You can also get everything else you need to do a decent install at their site. If you have any questions, just email me...I happen to own a company who does just these installations...

    Thanks,

    Tim Kilbride
     
  7. BryanZ

    BryanZ Screenwriter

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    Not sure about all the details here, but I'd give serious consideration to either nOrh 3.0 drums (specifically walnut or rosewood color) or Prisms (teak color). They go for $150 and $199 a pair respectively. Use the Onkyo receiver Saurav mentioned and you should be in business with money to spare. BTW, the nOrh wood 4.0s are on sale for $300 a pair and should also work.
     
  8. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    Thanks guys for the advice.

    I've been in radio for 12 years, and I'm well aware of BMI and ASCAP licensing fees. While it is true that they are covered if JUST listening to radio, they will be on their own for fees incurred while using commercial CDs. They've used a boom box in the store for years, and I'll give them the low down before I put the system in. I'll also drop a line to BMI and ASCAP to ask about this....I'm currently doing a 3 day monitor for my station for BMI, so it's an opportune time. The gift store is in Providence Hospital. I know there are many around the country....it's run by a Catholic, non-profit group...as is the gift shop.

    Wayne, I'm thinking it's more like 3000 cubic feet if I measure from 10 feet down the wall. The ceilings are 60-70 feet high, but I don't need sound up there....just 10 feet down. It's an odd shaped room, but the pillars make for an easy bracket mount for each speaker. I wasn't thinking about completely hiding the wire....maybe just using some flat, white wire that would match the paint pretty well. It'll look decent, but not invisible. Being that the ceilings are so high....an in-ceiling speaker set-up would run me a little over budget...I think.

    I completely forgot about A/B speaker option, and this will make it much easier, and cheaper. I looked at some mini-monitors from Paradigm today. $150/pr and they have a 60mm mounting bracket on the back side. They sound good, look great, and they're the correct price.

    Any other ideas appreciated.

    Tim, I will be in touch. Thanks for the offer of advice.

    Jeremy
     

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