Running 'small' is a crutch for weak amplification...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tony Lai, May 9, 2002.

  1. Tony Lai

    Tony Lai Stunt Coordinator

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    It has been brought to my attention by people who run floorstanders that upgrading from receivers to pre/pro allows one to realistically move from 'small' to 'large' settings for a more seamless spread of bass.

    Is this true?

    I've never much liked the 80-90-100Hz cuttoffs on floorstanders.

    I have a soundcard that lets one go from off-40-60hz etc. in 20Hz increments to 120Hz and the difference from 40 is 80 is very noticeable.

    T.
     
  2. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Someone..........please..........hurry up.......we must stop this can of ................ worms....from re-opening!!!

    Heheh. People don't necessarily run their fronts small due to lack of amplifier power, they do it because they want their subwoofer to be the sole transducer of bass from say 16 hz to 60 or 80 hz. If you get 500 watt amps and run your floorstanders large, you still won't get the pounding sub 20 hz bass unless your floorstanders are able to cover the entire range.
     
  3. Tony Lai

    Tony Lai Stunt Coordinator

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    I really don't like the way that my sub sounds higher up the registers (M&K) - there's something overbearing about the way it operates up around 60-80Hz.

    T.
     
  4. Andrew_Ballew

    Andrew_Ballew Second Unit

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    For my setup I run all speakers as large. There is a lot of bass that directionally belongs where it was mixed, i.e your surround channels in Dolby Digital 5.1. True, your deep bass should seamlessly blend and be as unlocalized as posssible for your LFE channel, but there are a lot of cases where bass, especially more localizable mid to upper frequency bass, truly belong in your other channels as mixed.

    I find the sound to be much cleaner and the overall sound better blended with my speakers setup as large. The trick, though, it having speakers and amplifiers that are truly capable of doing the full range of frequencies justice.

    Cheers

    Andrew B.
     
  5. Craig_Kg

    Craig_Kg Supporting Actor

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    Tony, don't you have a TA-E9000ES? With that, you can set the cutover to damned well anything you like for each set of speakers. There are few floorstanders (even powered towers) that get down to 25Hz properly while most decent subs will easily.

    This is why I'm considering their new receiver the STR-VA555ES instead of the Rotel 1066 as a prepro.
     
  6. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  7. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    80Hz is the standard crossover frequency for THX badged gear.
    I have a hard time localizing at that frequency.
    If a subwoofer has high distortion, the first distortion component is 160Hz and goes up from there. Many people localize distortion components in subwoofers.
    Regards,
     
  8. Sean M

    Sean M Stunt Coordinator

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    I've read a lot of threads on small vs. large for floorstanders, and I always come away with the same impression: that those who advocate large for their floorstanders are really making a good arguement for a) more flexible bass management with respect to crossover point and speaker selection, and b) using a sub that is capable of reproducing the frequencies below the crossover point cleanly.

    If you are using a reasonable crossover point, ~80hz+-, then your sub should not be localizable and should have clean output that blends well with your mains. If not, then there are probably other things you could do besides settings your mains to large. You could lower the crossover point, get a better sub, or take some measurements and get a parametric EQ if necessary.

    Of course, these are just my opinions, gleaned from the experience of upgrading from an adequate sub with too much distortion above the crossover point (Eosone 912) to a much better low distortion sub (SVS 20-39CS). All of my problems with the crossover point on my Marantz SR-8000 (100hz) disappeared, as did neighbor complaints, even though I play at the same volume level.
     
  9. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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  10. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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  11. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Sean,

    So I'm not clear on what you say here about people who choose LARGE. What are you running now with your SVS? Are you running the fronts SMALL?
     
  12. Sean M

    Sean M Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris, I am running Mirage OM-9's set to small. They have good output to the mid 30's in my room, but it's nothing compared to the output of my SVS. I auditioned larger towers, with and without powered subs in them, in smaller rooms and I never once thought that I would run those speakers as Large. In fact, I chose the 9's over the 7's partly based on the fact that I didn't hear much difference in the treble and midrange, only more bass, but not enough output to set the speaker as Large.

    Prior to getting the Mirages, I was running three matched Virtuel V303's, which also had good response into the mid 30's, but again, nothing that would make me want to run them as large. Both sets of speakers blend perfectly with the sub.
     
  13. Bob_L

    Bob_L Supporting Actor

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    I run my NHT 2.5 at 60Hz xover to my SVS20-39. I think the bass sounds bit more musical with the lower xover in my room. The THX 80Hz xover is great as a THX standard and a sensible choice. It may not be optimum for everyone, however, and it makes sense to experiement in each individual situation.
     
  14. BrentPollard

    BrentPollard Second Unit

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    Delete; [​IMG] Sorry guys my 18 mnth old decided he was going to post some gibberishwhile I was on the phone
     
  15. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  16. Andrew_Ballew

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