RPTV - CRT life expectancy

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Geoff L, Feb 11, 2002.

  1. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hi all,
    This is a rather open ended qustion, as im not talking total death to the set's, but rather....
    --> When might ~{Sony's mid 90's - 4.3's}~ to be more specific, begin to find them selfs more prone to (end of life) problems???
    --> And what might that be?
    Circuit boards failing, guns, power supply, ect.
    This is assumeing you have NOT got a lemon and have taken good care of it. Yearly cleaning of interior, guns,lens, mirrior's.
    --> Just wondering if their is a ballpark figure one can expect their set to run before an expensive problem arises?
    Of course there is always the exception, one that runs far longer than it should trouble free and the opposite end, one that is problem prone and dies an early death.
    Everything can be fixed generaly, but a set that is 10 years old and pukes, the costs of fixing could easily justifiy buying a newer better set.
    --> So dose anyone have any input on a general time life one can expect from the average 4.3 RPTV before expensive repairs might justify a new set?
    Thanks
    Geoff
     
  2. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    A guide line. I bought a 45" Mits in early 1989 as a demo off the floor of a CC store and subsequently gave it to my parents. Now, 12 to 13 years later, the set is still functioning fine, but it shows signs of nearing the end of its useful life.

    The set has never been allowed to have contrast higher than 20% on the menu clicker and you can see how the blooming point has been creeping toward the 20% mark over the years. It is now at 25% when the image blooms wildly. It has creeped down over time, but has been transparent to the end user.

    The set has not worked perfectly in all this time as it has had 2 to 3 visits for repairs ... totalling $800 over time. Always minor things like convergence circuit on one gun going ... a capacitor going ...

    The CRTs have never failed.

    Another item to note is that warm up time takes longer and longer over time ... the TV needs a good hour to warm up and during the first hour, convergence is really poor.

    Regards
     
  3. Frank Bambarola

    Frank Bambarola Auditioning

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    Purchased my Pioneer RPTV back in January of 1987. I have gone through 2 power supplies and 1 deflection board. The set refuses to die although it is starting to show its age. Image quality is still very good. This has been based on not overdriving things and yearly calibration with Video Essentials, etc.

    Bottom line, your mileage may vary.
     
  4. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    We (my parents, actually) bought an RCA RPTV in 1982. Around 1990 or so one of the guns started to go and the picture became pretty bad. Actually, by the late 80's the TV's picture quality started to deteriorate. But, During this eight years the TV got a lot of usage.
     
  5. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Thank you for your replys....
    I would have to assume that if one dosn't *overdriver* their set and play time is kept to an avaverage of say 4 hours a day, that one might not be suprised to see their set go 10 years given the replys to this point.?
    Of course their will always be the exception, some run much longer and much shorter.
    This was just a curiosity question...
    A few more questions:::
    --> Is it HARDER on an RPTV, to turn it on and off during the day or to let it run steady till one is ready to retire for the evening???
    My Sony set sees big play time 3-4 months a year 6-10 hours a day and the other 8-9 months can vary from little to none, as I work out of town. Durning the months im home with big play time, many times im steping out for a 1/2 hour or more only to return and turn the set back on. This can sometimes be 3 or more times in one day.
    --> That is why I wonder if it is harder on the set to turn it off and on or just let it play when im only going to be gone for short periods of time???
    --> Also with Avia, (sence NEW) Brightness runs about 53% Contrast runs about 42% on the Sony TV scale. Sharpness at 15%.... This has not changed with Avia touch-ups after it's complete cleaning once a year for the last 5 years!
    --> Is this normal-unnormal for my Sony 46" to stay solid in it's settings after 5 years and the fact that it seems I have to run contrast so high?
    *****In Comparision*****
    ~{Have helped my brother with his Philips and neighbors Toshiba, both 4 and 2 years NEWER respectivly and are 4.3 RPTV's}~
    -->Their sets cali-ed with Avia run much lower on the Contrast, around 25% to 27% which makes me wonder if their is an unseen ugly problem with my Sony set! BUT this hasn't changed or gotten worse in 5 years, all levels have stayed nearly the same..... Is this STRANGE..???
    --> Is there a reason that my set runs so hot on the Contrast...
    I hope some of you much sharp cookies might provde some possibilitys for my questions...:b
    Thanxs
    Geoff
     
  6. Doug_Bbn

    Doug_Bbn Auditioning

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    A non-enthusiast visiting another forum complained that after 9 months, he already had the Disney logo burned in to the lower right corner of the set. Shows you how fast things can go wrong if you aren't paying attention. Buying a demo RPTV (or even a tube set) from just about any store is a bad bad deal as they run them very bright for 9 to 12 hours per day every day. 1 month in a store is probably worth 1-2 years or more use at home with lower contrast settings.

    An article in one of the home theater magazines tracked the life of CRTs and found that most lose 1/2 of their light output in 1500 to 2500 hours. They also found that replacing the tubes costs about 1/2 the retail price of the set in mid-range sets... i.e. for a $3000-$6000 set you will pay $1500-$3000 for 3 new tubes. Lower priced sets can run more than 50% of the original cost. Higher priced sets... could be less than 50% of the cost (or not). When you actually replace the tubes is the big question. You can let them run down and down and down with picture quality constantly getting worse and worse and get way more life than if you replace them when they reach 50% of their light output when image quality starts to take a serious hit. Casual users probably won't be that interested in the picture quality, but enthusiasts who got the RPTV for the great images in the first place will start to squirm at that 50% point. If something happens and you were to have to replace the 3 lenses and the 3 tubes at the same time... it probably makes more sense to scrap the set and get a new one. Even replacing the tubes... if you are going to put new tubes in a 5 to 7 year old set and it is going to cost you $2000. That $2000 can buy a brand new HD capable RPTV today... or it could be 1/2 down on a really good HD capable RPTV. Nobody I know would be happy with new tubes in a 5 year old set today compared to what you can buy new for about the same cost... there has been that much improvement.
     
  7. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Geoff,
    I've had 2 Sony and 2 Hitachi rptvs in my home, as well as 4 Sony direct-view sets over the last 10 or so years.
    The Sony rptvs both seemed to need about 40-50% Contrast settings to equal the brightness of the Hitachi rptvs at about 30% Contrast. The Sony direct views, and most other direct-view sets I've played with in stores also ran at about 40-50% contrast.
    All sets have something called "sub" contrast, brightness, color in their service menus. These "sub" settings are sorta like baselines for the user settings. The higher the sub setting, the lower the user setting to achieve the same actual light output as far as contrast. I suspect Sony rptvs have their subcontrast set lower than other makes, so the user setting must be higher than on other sets to get the same result.
    The fact that the user contrast setting on Sony rptvs sorta matches up with their direct-views indicates to me that Sony wants people used to adjusting thier direct-view sets to feel comfortable with their rptvs. I know I was sort of uncomfortable at first with the difference in adjustment between the Hitachi rptvs and the direct view sets I was used to.
    The fact that your Sony set has maintained the same settings over the years seems like a good indication that it's a nice stable set, and not deteriorating.
    I would not worry about the percentage difference in contrast settings on your Sony vs the other makes, as long as the calibrated light output is about the same you're not overdriving anything.
     
  8. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Thank you all for the good information regarding my questions.
    It would seem that my trusty 4-1/2 year old Sony is doing fine and the information regarding guns and lens hours and their replacement costs are certainly not something Im in a hurry to face. The cost ratio given above {HT mag}~ did come as a shock, along with run time and light-output loss percentages. I new this could be pricey, but wow!
    In the event a major expence such as that, in excess of 800.00 or so, I would definitly look to a newer HD-ready & smaller set for the bedroom. As stated, the costs and picture quailty has come quite aways in recent years.
    And yes, sence new the set has never been pushed or pumped up.
    Again, thank you all for takeing time to reply it has been very helpfull....
    Geoff
     
  9. Bill_M

    Bill_M Agent

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    Most RPTVs today are so bright that a loss of even 50% will not matter because one can simply turn up the settings which are no where near max to begin with. I'd say a minimum of 7 years of great quality picture from RPTVs. After 7 years there has been such an improvement in the new sets one probably will want to buy a new one.
     
  10. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Im still curious to my question to turning the set on and off during the day when I leave for short periods of time. This happens only when im off during the coldest of months. 3-4 months out of the year. The rest of the year the set sees little to no play time. Maybe 8 hours a week at most as I work out of town all week....
    Is it better to leave the set running or turn it of and fire it back up when I return. These are usually short trips with me being back in an 1/2 hour or less.
    The current draw, electric bill$$$ is not my worry but the wear on the set!
    -->So the question bears, which is better run it steady or turn it off and then back on when I return,,,, or dose it not matter?
    Geoff
     
  11. Carson E

    Carson E Agent

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    Just read on the forum the following:

    "An article in one of the home theater magazines tracked the life of CRTs and found that most lose 1/2 of their light output in 1500 to 2500 hours."

    So my question, Assuming I purchase a RPTV and it runs 8 hrs. per day... 8 X 365 = 2920 hrs. the first year.

    Does this mean that I get one good year for a 3K$ TV?

    Trying to make my 1st RPTV purchase but this has me a little concerned. (total newbie w/ RPTV's)

    Please advise or offer opinion on this. If after 1 year I lose aprx. 50% light output...should I stick with Direct View?

    Thanks for 'any help'.

    Carson E...
     
  12. DougRuss

    DougRuss Stunt Coordinator

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    I've had my Sony RPTV for 12 years now. It's on about 8 hours per weekday and longer on weekends. Haven't noticed any really drastic changes in the light output?
    Think I've gotten my moneys worth out of it so far....but I am looking at going to a new 16:9 Panny RPTV ![​IMG]
     
  13. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    Deleted my post, in light of the merged threads.
     
  14. Kevin P

    Kevin P Screenwriter

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    Note that the "loss in light output" isn't linear. You'll lose about 5-10% in the first 200-300 hours, then it will taper off and degrade more gradually until around 10-20,000 hours at which point it'll drop faster again, at which point you're ready for a new set.

    It's also a function of how hard the CRTs are driven. At 100% contrast (torch mode) the phosphors will degrade much faster than at 30-40% contrast (which on most RPTVs is an optimum level, provided your room has some light control).

    At 100% contrast, 8 hours a day you'll need new CRTs in 2-3 years. At 30-40%, you'll get many years of enjoyment out of the set (10+), and you can always kick the contrast/brightness up a click or two as the set ages and loses light output.

    KJP
     
  15. Kevin P

    Kevin P Screenwriter

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    If you're only out for 1/2 hour, I'd leave the set on. If you're gone for an hour or more, turn it off. On/off cycles are hard on electronics.

    If you leave the set on, put it on a channel that doesn't have any static images or letterbox bars, to avoid uneven phosphor wear (aka burn-in). Or turn the contrast down to minimum when you leave and then turn it back up when you return.

    KJP
     
  16. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    As there is an identical conversation going on in a slightly larger thread, I thought it might be better if we merged this one with it.

    Good and interesting conversations here. And alarming, too.
     
  17. Carson E

    Carson E Agent

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    Jack, Kevin, Doug...

    I really, really appreciate your replies. Being new to RPTV your advise is very valuable.

    I feel a little better now about an RP purchase.

    Thanks again guys,

    Carson
     

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