RP CRT VS. RP LCD Help

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Luke_R, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. Luke_R

    Luke_R Agent

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    I am on the verge on purchasing either one of two televisions and need some help, I have narrowed my choices down to the Mitsubishi ws-55315 crt or the Hitachi 50v500 lcd. I have been reading many threads over on avs about problems with the Hitachi and rp lcd's in general, my question is how reliable is the lcd compared to the crt, I really like the picture and styling of the hitachi, but I don't want to be spending mucho dollars for new bulbs every year having pixels going out, etc. Is the safe bet to go with the crt or am I just being overly paranoid about a technology that probably isn't as bad as the forum sample crowd makes it out to be? please help, this is my first big screen and I don't want to make the wrong decision. [​IMG]
     
  2. Elinor

    Elinor Supporting Actor

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    If you want the "safe" bet get a CRT.

    I bought a RP-LCD and expect to replace the bulb some time near 10k hours. If it's a bit earlier, sobeit.

    I won't have another RP-CRT ... don't want to deal with lighting control, burnin, size, etc.
     
  3. Luke_R

    Luke_R Agent

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    Isn't burn-in mostly a non-issue if you keep the contrast and brightness around 50% for CRT's, or have I heard wrong.
     
  4. Elinor

    Elinor Supporting Actor

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    That will certainly keep it from happening fast. But there is a cumulative image danger (leaving a shopping channel, for instance). Even if you keep contrast low, eventually a static image will burn in. The CRTs in RP-CRT are significantly more susceptible to burn-in than regular CRTs.

    If I had no choice but to have a RP-CRT, I would never leave any channel on for more than an hour (that has a static image displayed), and would use zoom/stretch modes whenever 4:3 content was on. Both of which are constraints I wasn't willing to live with.

    Most of the people who tell you it is a non-issue, either don't mind the constraints (above), or don't keep tvs long enough for the damage to occur.

    Joe Kane, who produces the Video Essentials and DVE discs, has said that an improperly adjusted RP-CRT can burn in in 30 seconds. Now, given that, don't you think that even a PROPERLY adjusted one, displaying content (static image) for 5 hours, can suffer burn-in. Dam straight it can.
     
  5. Harold Southard

    Harold Southard Stunt Coordinator

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    I have had a Panasonic pt-53wx63 for over 11 months. I have watched Fox News every day. I am not worried about burn in. Just use Avia and set your tv up right and you will have no problem. My tv is fine. Looks as good now as when I bought it. Don't leave it on something like Fox news or HSN over night. Don't worry yourself to death over it. My tv has image shift that moves the screen a litte every now and then to help prevent burn in. You don't notice the "shift". No bulbs to worry about. [​IMG] Also crt still (imo and others) gives the best picture. Because of all the talk of burn in, I think it has caused people to worry about it more than they should. My tv gets watched all the time. Many hours a day. If not me, my wife, or one of my 3 kids.
     
  6. matt-f

    matt-f Second Unit

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    I would recommend CRT over anything else because CRT is the "standard" for video reference.
     
  7. Wayde_R

    Wayde_R Stunt Coordinator

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    I've been looking at a lot of TVs lately. It seems that picture quality cannot be judged in stores.

    I look at CRT RPs and they have washed out looking noisy signals attached. I don't believe it's the fault of the TV, it's a video signal that was intended for one TV that is split into ten. If a DVD is connected half the time it's not even set to progressive scan.

    Then you step over to one of their 'signature' sets, the $6K display, and it has a dedicated video source and it's been tweaked so it looks really impressive. At least that's been my experience shopping these days.

    So, please let me know that CRT RPs look great! Remind me that the washed out noise look is just the vid signal and that when I get one home it's going to looks awesome.

    I'm thinking of one of Hitachi's new 50 or 57 inch CRT RPs.
     
  8. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    As matt-f said above. In a non-bright sunshine room (i.e. average light control) a CRT RPTV is still the best picture you can get and they are the best bang for the buck going. They require more calibration, some little maintenance (convergence every once in a while) and are more prone to burnin; but they have the best blacks, no rainbow effect, no blown pixels and no movement trails. Most ISF calibrators on this site have said that the CRT RPTV is still the reference for picture quality in RPTV's.
     
  9. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Apparantly Not in my case as many others. I can't remember the last CRT set I've seen with burn in on it.

    That said if you want poor black level(i mean grey level) then CRT is NOT for you. Black is where it's at.

    My room is not at all dark but the color choice I have tends to absorb the light. No issues with PQ. No rainbows, no bulbs blowing up early, No motion blur, No dead pixels. I haven't touched my convergence since the day after I got it home when I did the convergence. No drift at all.
     
  10. Elinor

    Elinor Supporting Actor

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    Shane, if you are talking about RP-CRT please state that. You said only CRT. CRTs and RP-CRTs are VERY different in terms of burn-in.
     
  11. Harold Southard

    Harold Southard Stunt Coordinator

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    Yea, if you put it in burn mode! Adjust it properly and no problems. If you leave it on some static image 5 or more hours (just a wild guess) I'm sure you may get burn in. I have fallen asleep with Fox News on, woke up in the morn. and NO burn in. It scared me at first because I just had the tv a few weeks and had read threads like this one. It is not as big an issue as some (some who don't even own a crt rptv) make it out to be. That being said, I have seen pics of burn in. They where of someones tv who used the factory settings or had turned the brightness/contrast up and had left it on a static image. If you can not control glare and the light in the room and the room is real brite you will not want a crt.
     
  12. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    I'm stating RP CRT. No issues with burn in here. None on my father in laws set of 18 years, none on the ones I've seen when I worked for a service shop. None on the sets we used to sell at a place I worked and we left it on stations with logos.

    My friends 12 yr old CRT RPTV is in the same boat.
     
  13. Elinor

    Elinor Supporting Actor

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    >"If you leave it on some static image 5 or more hours (just a wild guess) I'm sure you may get burn in."

    Well yeah. That's what you call "a constraint." That's why I'm not interested in RP-CRT. With RP-LCD, I can leave the same thing on for 50 HOURS IN A ROW if I want, with contrast CRANKED up, and I won't f up the set. (Not that I do that now or before.)

    >"If you can not control glare and the light in the room and the room is real brite you will not want a crt."

    Yeah, that's called "a constraint" too. Another one I choose not to live with.

    But it's OK. I never said RP-CRTs are lousy sets, just that they have constraints I am not willing to live with.

    If you folks have not suffered burnin, wonderful for you. I have, and I won't own a set where that can happen again, or where I am squinting at the set during the day saying "what's happening, can you see anything?"
     
  14. Luke_R

    Luke_R Agent

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    wouldn't it be just about impossible to leave anything on for more than 10-15 minutes, wouldn't commercials be considered a break in the static image and thus take away the chance of burn-in, unless of course you watch material with black bars on the top& bottom or sides all day long or leave a video game paused forever, or am I wrong here.
     
  15. Wayde_R

    Wayde_R Stunt Coordinator

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    hey Elinor.

    Not trying to start a CRT vs LCD thread, or any other vs thread for that matter. But you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

    To me CRT is the natural state of video existence, it's what I'm used to. A new display type has to prove itself to me before I'm interested. To me it's natural to take necessary precautions to avoid burn in, I've owned video game sets for over a decade and used them on TV.

    My fear with an LCD projector is a dead pixel that turned up red in the middle of my screen. Just one is all it would take to irritate me to no end. Is a dead pixel a warranty item? The fact that a dead pixel is a roll of the dice scares me out of LCD. Now, burn in is a consequence to actions, we know it's cause, there is no roll of the dice.

    Not trying to lob a competition your way Elinor, we just have different views. It's interesting to me, that's all.
     
  16. Elinor

    Elinor Supporting Actor

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    Wayde, LCDs have been around, what, about a decade now. Granted that's not as long as CRT, but it's long enough that the technology is pretty well known. RP-LCDs have been sold now for, what, about 3 years or so? Again, enough that the initial bugs have been worked out, IMO.

    I think the dead pixel issue varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, and from warranty company to warranty company. Frankly, I have only heard of people being able to see individual green pixels, and I have only heard of one or two guys on these AV/HT forums who could see them at normal viewing distance. More people have ones visible when their face is up to the screen very close.

    I did not find that issue, nor the one about bulbs blowing out prematurely, to be a very big deal. In the first year, it's covered (bulb). After that, it's either rotten luck (and statistically no more likely than any other component failure) or it reaches its MTBF.

    It's not as if RP-CRTs don't ever have any problems. Just hop on over to AVS forums, put in virtually any model number, and read about problems to your heart's content. Every manufacturer you can name has threads about problems, and every technology. CRTs, RP-CRTs, DLPs, LCDs ... it's part of the nature of having these forums, that they attract folks with problems trying to find solutions.

    Some retailers are not even carrying regular CRTs any more. Some manufacturers have stopped making RP-CRTs. They seem to find microdisplays (RP-LCD, DLP, Dila) and flat panels (direct view LCD and plasma) to be the future.

    Again, as I said before, a stuck pixel didn't scare me, but no way would I live with the constraints that RP-CRT imposes.
     
  17. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Add to that the Blowing bulbs and terrible black level and I was scared away completely. Dead Pixels are not covered by any of them that I know of. It is a prime possibility with a RP LCD set.

    The primary reason these sets are selling isn't because they're better but because they look cute/thin. Sales drive what companies will do.

    Elinor is right all sets have issues so you need to decide whats best. I think the whole burn in issue is really just a scare tactic at best to force folks to buy more expensive sets(looking at the same size image). I really haven't seen burn in be an issue in the past 10 years. I know many people whom owned these sets even with super high torch settings, no issues.

    However if you wish to talk PQ, then CRT is still the king.
     
  18. Luke_R

    Luke_R Agent

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    Thanks to all, I have decided on the ws-55315 rpcrt. I just can't justify sinking as much money as lcd costs knowing the issues that they have. I can plan around burn-in, I can't plan around blown pixels or bulbs going out prematurely among other problems, seems to me crt is the safe bet for now, with lcd and dlp not quite being ready for those of us whom reliability is the top priority, hopefully next time I have to make this choice I will feel much more comfortable with one of these technologies.
     
  19. matt-f

    matt-f Second Unit

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    Well LCDs do have their weak point like response time and limited and contrast and blackness ratio while CRT tubs and RPTVs don't have a limit.

    Jeff went into a bit more detail of what I said but the information is correct. The information I posted was from my local ISF.
     
  20. Wayde_R

    Wayde_R Stunt Coordinator

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    well, here is me backtracking a bit...

    I just got back from bringing my dvd player into a local TV shop, nice guys at Steve's TV in Kitchener. Anyway here's what I did.

    I hooked my pioneer 563A to a Sony LCD projector and fired up LOTR opening scenes where Gandalf and the balrog are struggling. The black level "problem" didn't seem like such a problem to me. As you may know there are great contrasts in that scene with bright red, orange and black. I got to watch panning mountainscapes and close ups of faces speaking on bright sunny day with lots of light. It all looked incredible.

    Moved to a CRT RP, Hitachi 51F... (new one). The scene looked amazing again, but slightly different qualities. The red, orange hues of the balrog had a quality (I can't put my finger on) that made them seem to leap off the screen, it was like they were very bright and convincing flames. The black contrast was excellent, after seeing the Hitachi in action I realize that it certainly presented black better than the LCD projector. The mountainscapes looked breathtaking. My only qualm with the CRT is there seemed to be this sort of 'noise' when it got very bright white. The snow in sunshine, white face speaking to each other... it seemed too much for the contrast levels, perhaps they needed to be turned down but it was SO bright that I got the impression of black dots in the whiteness. The faces in the background, the ones NOT being focused upon when someone else was talking, seemed almost 'too' blurry, there was definitely that same noise problem I never noticed on the LCD projo.

    On the CRT I tossed in the animated Spiderman cartoon, the MTV one. I loved the bright contrasts. I assumed this would look excellent on the LCD so I didn't bother with it, I realize that if anything, animation gets an edge on the LCD because it is a fixed pixel display.

    I don't know now. I'm torn. I really liked some things about CRT projo, especially the price, but as for the total package, presentation etc I think the LCD projector edges it out.

    What do you think?
     

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