Rotel video switching issues

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Marshall Sander, Jun 11, 2002.

  1. Marshall Sander

    Marshall Sander Stunt Coordinator

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    Please look at this thread:
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=rotel+hd
    Just in case it doesn't work, the text reads:
    Rotel RSP-1066 Video Switching Weak???
    I've been looking over the new $1500 Rotel RSP-1066 pre/pro and today noticed that Rotel specs the component video switching bandwidth as only 3-10Mhz -3dB. Not only is this woefully insufficient to pass a 1080i HD signal, it even falls short of fully passing a 480p signal. 480p progressive output from a DVD player requires 13.5Mhz, and many people recommend a bit over that to fully pass a sharp image. That is, it is better if the -3dB point is a bit higher than 13.5Mhz.
    If Rotel's spec is real, this is a serious shortcoming for just about anyone wanting to use it for component video switching - unless you plan on using only interlaced 480i video. Rotel claims that 10Mhz is sufficient for 480p, and perhaps it is for most people and TV sets. But it is hard to believe that any new pre/pro would use components of such low quality, heck, the $1000 Denon 3802 receiver supports 27Mhz through its component inputs. While 1080i theoretically requires 37Mhz, 27Mhz is sufficient to exceed the resolution limits of many HDTV sets.
    Is this a legitimate concern?
     
  2. StevenK

    StevenK Second Unit

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    Hell, my crappy Pioneer 811S offers 30Mhz bandwidth...so I can't believe a $1500 pre/pro is limited to 10Mhz....it's gotta be a typo. If not, I hope people don't with the "it's not about the features, it's about the sound" argument...
     
  3. Brian Corr

    Brian Corr Supporting Actor

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    WHile it is a legitimate concern, nobody interested in getting the best quality is going to use a receiver or pre/pro to do the video switching, especially with an HD feed. Regardless of the bandwidth capability, it's just another link for potentially degrading the video. JMHO
     
  4. Mike_T_

    Mike_T_ Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm sending my DVD signal directly to the TV. Unless I had a dedicated video router that was excellent, I'd never do otherwise. I never even considered using my 1066 for this purpose.
     
  5. AVspec

    AVspec Supporting Actor

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    I would like to see a Pre/Pro with no video incorporated into it. I use an Extron RGB switcher for my Barco 808s and would never use a Pre/Pro for any sort of high end video switching.

    Putting video options in a device that is supposed to be for superior audio is a big waste…. IMHO.
     
  6. Han

    Han Second Unit

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    I'd like to see it not be there half-@ssed like just about every receiver or pre/pro. Enough bandwidth, no noticeable degradation, AND upconversion of composite and S-Video to component. It seems only Kenwood Sovreign and the Denon 5803 are able to do this.
     
  7. Gregg Z

    Gregg Z Stunt Coordinator

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    The video bandwidth on the 1066 is only rated as 10MHz and spec'd by Rotel as switching up to 480p. That being said, another forum member says that he is putting a 1080i signal thru his 1066 without issue. He was not able to try a 720p signal since his projector doesn't support 720p.

    Gregg
     
  8. Jed M

    Jed M Cinematographer

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    I find it interesting that the 1066 owners are now saying features aren't important? [​IMG] IMO if the 950 switched at 10MHz and the 1066 at 45MHz I believe most of you would be singing a different tune.
     
  9. Angelo_Petralba

    Angelo_Petralba Second Unit

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    It was "MY" assumption that a PRE/PRO or Receiver was the CENTER or the HEART of your Home Theater, if this is the case then it SHOULD do MOST of the PROCESSING INCLUDING Video Processing! It only make sense because WE all know that some of us have MORE gear than some of these B&M stores[​IMG] (I wish).
    What ever the case, I think it is important for a Pre/Pro do be able to do this SPECIALLY at a pricepoint of $1500+.
    My 18 cents[​IMG]
    Angelo
     
  10. Mike_T_

    Mike_T_ Stunt Coordinator

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    It would be interesting to see how many people out there route all video signals through their receiver or pre amp. Or at least the DVD and HDTV signals. Regarding the features of the 950 and 1066, video switching really didn't seem to be a priority for anyone looking to purchase one. Since when do we expect at $1500 pre amp to give you everything your heart desires? I think we're getting spoiled.
     
  11. Jeff Kohn

    Jeff Kohn Supporting Actor

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    I would tend to agree that Rotel dropped the ball on this one. I can't imagine that having higher bandwidth video switching would have significantly affected the unit cost. I'm not actually using the video switching now, but if any XBox games ever ship with HD support I'm going to need some sort of switching solution, and since the Rotel only has 10Hmz bandwidth that means I'll probably have to buy a separate switcher.
     
  12. Gregg Z

    Gregg Z Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm not sure if it was a cost consideration or a "noise floor" consideration. Any time you pack stuff like a tuner and video switching into a unit you run the risk of creating noise in the audio path. I think a purist pre-pro would probably be something like 4 separate shielded boxes; analog audio box, digital decoder box, tuner box; and video switching box (of course all linked so that they could be controlled from a single source).

    Also, as far as my thinking when it comes to HDTV and pre/pro's, when I designed my system I intended to switch all 480p and below sources thru my pre/pro and run the hi-rez signal straight to the display device. My Sony 11HT projector has 2 sets of RGBHV connectors. One is connected via component to my 1066. The other will be a direct connection to my HDTV set top box. If I choose to hook up a PC to my projector, I will probably use a very high bandwidth external A/B video switcher to switch between the HDTV and the PC.

    Gregg
     
  13. Brian Corr

    Brian Corr Supporting Actor

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    I have to agree with those that don't want the extra's in the box.
    We jump to separates to hopefully improve things by not having an "all in one box" solution. If that's what you want, then get a receiver.
    I don't know if the 10mhz limit is an oversight or was done to provide a bare minimum of switching. It's fine with me as I would prefer the switching (as well as a tuner) not be in the same box.
    Jed,
    I guess those of us that like the 1066 will just have to settle for a unit that looks better, performs better, is upgradable and is made by a company that has it's sh*t together. [​IMG] Of course, that's JMHO.
     
  14. alan_dana

    alan_dana Agent

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    Someone posted that a friend was running a 1080i signal through a 1066 "without issue." I believe to preserve a full 1080i requires something like 37Mhz (and a good spec for a component HD switcher is 45-50Mhz, to push out the -3dB point away from the visible range), although something in the mid-20's is sufficient for most of the HDTV sets currently out there. Also the Rotel spec of 10Mhz is their -3dB point, it may extend out a bit further at increasing lower signal levels.

    In any case, it is not allowing anything near the full 1080i signal to get through, so if this person isn't noticing a difference, then it is because either their TV is displaying HD at something much less than 1080i, or they aren't a very critical observer. I believe 10Mhz is roughly equivalent to passing a 360p signal.

    I think the 1066 is still a very good value as an audio processor even with this deficiency. It's just too bad that they are effectively not offering an acceptable level of quality for component switching for those people who are in need of this feature (and especially since it falls short of 480p switching, which I would have hoped was a bare minimum requirement). Someone with this requirement will need to add an external switcher.

    Alan
     
  15. Jed M

    Jed M Cinematographer

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    Brian, I think its nap time for you [​IMG] Reread some of your posts because for someone who likes to dish it out you sure don't take it well, but that JMHO. I'm not even going to address your assertion that it performs better but you forgot to mention another feature of the 1066 is it can be used as a small griddle running at around 100 degrees or so. [​IMG]
     
  16. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    If it such a big deal, how many rotel owners who have owned the 950 have returned their 1066?

    I've seen 5 members post they have compared the 2 in their own home and 0 1066's have been sent back. The 950 is usually sold off to another forum member it seems as well so Outlaw may not have any returns persa.

    Honestly, I'd never ever use the 1066 for video switching. I've been told you need 2x the normal bandwidth to properly switch hi def so in actuality you will need something near 80 mhz to do it w/o degredation.
     
  17. Brian Corr

    Brian Corr Supporting Actor

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    I haven't found the 1066 to run hot.
    I stopped by a local dealer the other day who has the 1066 sitting on top of the 1095 amp. It had been on all day and was only warm to the touch. That's the third one I've touched and all were only warm. Haven't heard a 1066 owner who thought it was a problem.
    As far as video switching, I guess there is always a chance that Rotel could offer an upgrade for the component video switching.
    If it's a concern shoot Rotel an email and let them know it's a concern as well as posting in the thread at:
    http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/inde...estTimeout=500
    Jed,
    yawnnnnnnnnnn. Wake me up when you have something valuable to add.
     
  18. AVspec

    AVspec Supporting Actor

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    My 1066 also does not run hot at all... heck I would not even consider it to run warm even after being on all day long.

    As far as the video switching... the Extron SW 6 AR MXHV I use for my video switching has a bandwidth of 600MHz (-3dB) which I used to switch Hi-Def and 1280x720p DVD with no degradation in the video signal.

    The only video signal “I” would ever switch with a pre/pro or a receiver would be 480i composite video and maybe s-video if I were desperate. YMMV…
     
  19. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    I sent Rotel an email regarding this topic and I'll post any reply I get back in the thread on HTG to keep it all in one place. IMO while I do route all my s-video sources though my pre amp I only do it b/c my TV lacks discrete inputs. If we're going to bitch at someone lets focus on TV manufacturers for not offering more inputs and allowing for direct access with discrete codes...that would be the best solution rather then complaining to pre pro manufacturers for not offering better patches to someone elses problem.
     
  20. Joe Mollura

    Joe Mollura Stunt Coordinator

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    I am not using my 1066 for video switching but here is some interesting info. I checked out a review (on Rotels website) by SGHT of the 976 processor. The specs on the 976 stated 10mhz, but according to the reviewer, he was told by Rotel that the North American model was rated at 16.5 and the European model was rated at 23.5. He also stated that there was a slight loss of contrast and resolution when a high def feed was run through the Rotel.
    BTW, I also haven't found the Rotel 1066 to run hot.
     

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