Rotel RSP-1066 + Paradigms or Anthem AVM-20. Which one?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Legairre, Feb 26, 2002.

  1. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    I posted this late yesterday and there were a few replies. Since it was lost I figured I might as well post it again.
    I have a REAL problem here. I'm Anthem AVM-20 bound big time. Because I love to demo stuff I emailed my dealer and asked if they had the Rotel RSP-1066 in yet. I also asked for a price on some Paradigm Studio 60s(I NEED NEW SPEAKERS). My current speakers are JBL HLS series. They were fine for a few years, but now I really want better speakers. The dealers is saying that he could put me in the RSP-1066, Studio 60s and Studio CC(Evan, notice I was able to add the CC to the deal thanks to you) for a really great price as a combo. I won't quote the price, because with 24K members the dealer might read this forum. Let's just say I could be in this combo for about the same price as the Anthem. Before any of you say "hey, that's no bargain" you have to know that I'm part of Evan's AVM-20 group buy and we have a great price on the AVM-20. THANKS EVAN.
    My dilemma is this. If the Rotel is a great sounding unit. Which do you guys think will give the biggest sonic benefit. The AVM-20 with my current JBL speakers(I can't do the both the Anthem and new speakers due to my budget) or the Rotel with the Paradigm 60s? Of course if the Rotel sounds like crap this is an easy decision.
    OK guys, talk me out of this. Please talk me out of this.[​IMG]
     
  2. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    Legairre,
    I do not know if you got my last post before the crash, but, if the Rotel sounds good (which given their track record, it should sound good), then the Rotel/Paradigm combo will probably sound almost as good as the Anthem/JBL combo. So you probably won't be giving up much sound wise. You may be giving up some features, but you will can some others (e.g., DPLII) that are not presently on the Anthem (where you will eventually have to spend the extra $300 for the upgrade). All in all, the Rotel/Pardigm is a twofer (preamp and speakers), and should sound really good.
    You are a lucky man however[​IMG] to have such a dilemma.
     
  3. Christian Speights

    Christian Speights Stunt Coordinator

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    After the way people have GUSHED over the Anthem, I would say that its an awesome choice (I, of course, have only read about it). But, if you are looking for the greatest sonic benefit, you can't beat an upgrade in speakers. If you are finding the JBLs difficult to listen to, then the Studio 60s would be a worthy replacement.
    From looking at your post, it's hard to tell how much you mind the JBLs. Of course, it's recognizing room for improvement in one's system that ends up being our undoing (the very cause of upgraditis).
    If you can live with your current speakers for a spell, stick with the Anthem. That unit looks like it will scale to meet all your HT needs for the next few years at least. Then start moving on the Paradigms. It will take a while longer, but eventually you will end up with ALL the components you want the most. Of course this assumes you don't have meet with any opposition (WAF, budget, etc.)
    If you MUST ditch your current speaks, get the package deal, and enjoy some very competent new equipment. Worst case scenario, you hate the Rotel and sell it, using the proceeds to buy (part of) the Anthem...which would have the upgrade by then.
    If you are already not satisfied with your speakers, I doubt the Anthem will help you fall in love with them again. If your deal on the Anthem was that good, you shouldn't have any trouble selling it.
    How's that for just confusing the issue? [​IMG]
    Christian
     
  4. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    George thatnks, I didn't see your last post. I'm going up to hear the combo on Saturday. The dealer has agreed to setup the 1066 with the 1095 amp and the 60s as speakers. This way I'll get to hear the combo with all the gear I'll have. He's even said I can take home the 1066 for a weekend trial when he gets some in. Right now he only has the demo unit. Should be fun.
     
  5. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    Have lots of fun, and let us know how the 1066 sounds.
     
  6. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    Christian,

    If I get the Anthem now I'll probably be under the wife's restrictions for any upgrades for at least a year. I'll be spending my 2002 budget all in one shot. I was all set to go with the Anthem until the dealer offered me a good price after I mentioned I wanted the Anthem, but wanted to hear the Rotel. Since he doesn't carry Anthem he probably figured give me a good deal to get my business. Your right though. I could always get the Rotel and Audiogon that sucker in a year if I'm not happy.
     
  7. Dennis Oblow

    Dennis Oblow Stunt Coordinator

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    Dennis
    I think we should think about the difference in specs, flexibility, upgradabilty, and the fact that the AVM 20 also has a tuner. More expensive,yes, worth it, you bet!

    ANTHEM AVM 20

    PREAMPLIFIER SECTION

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Input Impedance 20 k ohms

    Output Impedance

    Main-RCA 300 ohms

    Other-RCA 51 ohms

    XLR 600 ohms

    Rated Input 2.0 Vrms

    Maximum Input

    6-Channel S/E 3.0 VRMS

    All Others 5.3 Vrms

    Rated Output (100k ohms load) 2.0 Vrms

    Minimum Load 5 kohms

    Maximum Output

    RCA 6.3 RMS

    XLR 12.6 Vrms

    Headphone Output 100 mW into 32 ohms @ 0.2% THD+N

    Volume Range

    Main -95.5 dB to +31.5 dB (0.5 dB resolution)

    Zone2/3 & headphone -70 dB to +10.0 dB (1.25 dB resolution)

    Bass Management

    High-Pass Slope (Small Speaker Setting)12 db/octive (second order)

    Low-Pass Slope (Subwoofer)24 db/octive (4th order)

    Crossover Frequency (Adjustable in 10 Hz Increments)40-160Hz 24 dB/octave (4th order)

    Tone Control

    Bass Center Frequency 200 Hz

    Treble Center Frequency 2 kHz

    Range +- 12db

    Channel Separation (at 1 kHz) 82 dB

    Crosstalk Between Inputs (at 1 kHz) 86 dB

    MAIN PATH (RCA & XLR Outputs, 48 kHz Sampling Rate for all Digital Signal Paths)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Frequency Response and Bandwidth

    Direct Inputs 10 Hz to 20 kHz +0,-0.2 db; 1 HZ to 140 kHz -3db

    Analog-DSP Inputs 10 HZ to 20 kHz =0,-0.5 db;2Hz to 22kHz -3db

    Digital Inputs 10 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.4 dB; 1 Hz to 22kHz -3db

    THD+N (at Rated Input & Output)

    6-Channel Direct Inputs 0.009% (80 kHz BW)

    Analog-Direct Inputs 0.008% (80 kHZ BW)

    Analog-DSP Inputs 0.008% (AES17 Filter)

    Digital Inputs 0.008% (AES Filter)

    IMD (CCIF) @ 15 kHz & 16 kHz

    6-Channel S/E Inputs 0.0008%

    All Other Analog Inputs 0.003%

    Digital Inputs 0.002%

    S/N Ratio (ref. 2.0 Vrms A-weighted)

    All Direct Inputs 106 db

    Analog-DSP Inputs 98 db

    Digital Inputs 102 dB

    XLR Pin Configuration Pin 1: Ground, Pin 2: Positive, Pin 3: Negative

    ZONE2 and ZONE 3 PATHS

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Frequency Response and Bandwidth 20 HZ to 20 kHz =0,-0.1; 3 HZ to 140 kHz -3 db

    THD+N (at Rated Input & Output) 0.06% (80 kHz BW)

    IMD (CCIF at 15 kHz & 16 kHz)0.06%

    S/N Ratio (ref. 2.0 Vrms A-weighted) 97 db

    RECORD PATH Analog to Digital Conversion S/N Ratio (A-weighted) 100 dB

    FM TUNER SECTION

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sensitivity

    50dB S/N 13 dbu., 25 dbu max.

    IHF 10 dBµ typ., 20 dBµ max.

    10 dBµ typ., 20 dBµ max.

    S/N Ratio

    Mono 75 db typ., 65 db min

    Stereo 69 dB typ., 60 dB min

    Distortion

    Mono 0.2% typ., 1.0 max

    Stereo 0.3% typ., 1.5% max.

    Stereo Separation 40 dB typ., 25 dB min.

    Adjacent Channel Selectivity (+/- 400 kHz) 70 dB typ., 60 dB min.

    Frequency Response 20 Hz to 15 kHz +/- 1 dB

    AM TUNER SECTION

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sensitivity (20 dB S/N)

    S/N 50 db typ., 43 db min.

    Distortion 0.7% typ., 2.0% max.

    One Signal Selectivity (+/- 10 kHz)

    24 dB typ., 18 dB min.

    VIDEO SECTION

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bandwidth

    Composite & S-Video 6 MHz-0.2db; 70MHz -3db

    Component Green 110MHZ -3db

    Component Red 90MHZ -3db

    Component Blue 80MHZ -3db

    All video inputs and outputs are 75 ohms, 1.5 Vp-p. Component inputs and outputs work with any Standard requiring ultra-wide bandwidth (1080 p compatible), including Component-RGB, HDTV, line doublers, quadruplers, and scalers.

    DIGITAL AUDIO

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    All digital audio inputs and outputs are to S/PDIF electrical (75 ohms, 0.5 Vp-p), S/PDIF optical (Toslink), or AES / EBU (110 ohms, 5 Vp-p) standards as appropriate.

    Processor Motorola 56366 120 MHz

    Audio Converters

    Analog to Digital AKM AK5383 24-bit/96kHz

    Digital to Analog AKM AK5382 24-bit/192 kHz to 24-bit/192

    CONTROL

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    RS-232 Connection DB-9F (straight-wired)

    RS-232 Pin Configuration Pin 2: Rx, Pin 3: Tx, Pin 5: Ground

    RS-232 Port Configuration Baud rate (1200, 2400, 4800, 9600, 19200, 38400, 57600, 115200), 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity bits, flow control (RTS, CTS, NONE)

    Trigger Outputs

    Trigger 1, 2

    Trigger 3

    Sequential Delay 50 mA @ 12 VDC

    200 mA @ 12 VDC

    250 ms

    DIMENSIONS

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Width

    Height

    Depth

    Weight 17 1/4 inches (43.8 cm)

    5 3/4 inches (14.8 cm)

    14 1/4 inches (36.2 cm)

    27 lbs. (12.2 kg)

    MISCELLANEOUS

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Supply Voltage 105-130 V, 60 Hz only

    Power Consumption Maximum 120 VA

    Fuse Rating

    Main Power Supply

    Standby Power Supply 1.0 A slow-blow 5x20 mm

    315 mA fast-blow 5x20 mm

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ROTEL

    S P E C I F I C A T I O N S

    Model RSP-1066

    Audio -

    IM Distortion (60 Hz:7 kHz)
     
  8. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    Larry,

    The DACs are VERY important to me. I just sent Rotel an email to see which DACs are in the 1066. I think I remember merc saying they were 96/24 instead of the 192/24 the 950 and the AVM-20 have. Anyone know? I guess I'm trying to find out which way will give me the biggest sonic benefit. If I go with the AVM-20 I'll definately have the most future proof pre/pro currently on the market, but will my speakers just hide all that great sound. If I go with the 1066 I won't have the most future proof pre/pro and probably won't sound as good as the AVM-20, but will the 1066 with the paradigms still sound better them the AVM-20 and my old speakers? This really is a no win scenario. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
     
  9. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

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    The Rotel does in fact use inferior DACS to those in the Outlaw and Anthem.

    Anthem DACS

    Analog to Digital AKM AK5383 24-bit/96kHz

    Digital to Analog AKM AK5382 24-bit/192 kHz to 24-bit/192

    By comparison...Rotel DACS use 24/96. This is where the server crash hurt us because somebody got the specific model DACS in the Rotel...also made by AKM, but they were definately the inferior models to the Anthem and the ones used by Outlaw (Cirrus?).

    That's the point Larry. If Legairre wants to maximize the sound he can get from his system, getting the Rotel won't do that. He'd be better off getting the Atlantic Technology P-2000 if he didn't like the looks of the Outlaw. This is just my opinion.
     
  10. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    Yesterday I asked Rotel who makes the DACs. This is what I got back.

     
  11. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

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    Legairre, it was my impression as posted by Merc I believe that he talked to a Rotel dealer and confirmed the DACS in the Rotel were AKM design. Anyone with clarification on this matter?
     
  12. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    Evan,

    That would true if it were the Anthem/Paradigm combo. However, the question really is how good will the Rotel/Paradigm combo sound in comparison to the Anthem/JBL combo.

    My hunch is that they will sound close. Of course, the Rotel is not the Anthem (in terms of features and upgradability, and sound), but with the JBLs there may not be THAT big of a difference.

    It will be interesting to find out what Legairre thinks the weekend.
     
  13. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    I got the DAC info from Rotel's tech support. Anyone know anything on this. I'm confused. Here's the entire reply.
     
  14. Bob-N

    Bob-N Supporting Actor

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    Dang Legairre, you traitor! [​IMG]
    I have to admit also, that that Rotel/Paradigm combo for the same price as our Anthems is a pretty great deal if I remember what the MSRPs on the 60's are. I can see the dilemma if you're spend all of your 2002 budget at this time.
    I think Christian voiced my ideas as to how you like the JBLs. I think that the Anthem will make the JBLs sound a bit better but I don't know by how much. Your audition will probably answer a lot of questions about sound.
    I think if you look at why Evan started the GP, we wanted the best pre/pro available at a reasonable price. I think we did. Features we needed/wanted were delay/distance settings, upgradability and great sound. The Outlaw was missing the first two, Rotel (IMHO) is missing hardware upgradability and sound is unknown at this time but should be presumably good at the very least. Make sure you test out the CD bypass to see if it makes much difference in sound.
    So what we're paying for with the Anthem over the Rotel is upgradability (or as upgradable as possible under the current conditions), better DACs (important to you), tuner (I don't remember if you want one, add another $100-300) and some other features not found on the Rotel which may or may not be important to you.
    My 0.02 cents to a tough choice.
    Bob
    Edited to add one more thought about CD bypass.
     
  15. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    Bob,

    Also the Paradigms would be in veneer. I used to like the JBLs just fine. But thanks to our little demo of the Anthem last week, pared with the 40s and later I got to hear the 100s again. I'm thinking new speakers. Actually I wasn't even thinking new speakers until the dealer asked me what I wanted him to setup 1066 with for a demo. I said, hey how about some Paradigm 60s and a Rotel 1095 amp. That's when he started talking about the price for a combo package. That's what started me down this path.
     
  16. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

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    Interesting situation. Let me tell you that I haven't heard the 2 pre-amps you are considering. I do have some experience with the speakers, my little bro has a pair, they are certainly very very good for the $$ (actually I think that they are sort of a "sleeper speaker" as far as sound good, but know getting much press, or costing very much, that being said My dad has the 976 rotel pre amp hooked up to the McIntosh 202 amp (a $3500 amp iirc) and to B&W cdm9nt speaks. My freind owns a dealer that sells rotel, he tells me that at the middle/end of last year that rotel didn't even sell their old high end pre-amp (1065??) b/c so many people were buying hte 976 and very happy with it (in hind site, it could have been b/c of hte new one coming out). My point is, the $1200 now outdated/cheaper pre from rotel sounds VERY good on his system, he is also running SACD so you can really hear how good it sounds. This is always a delema, what to upgrade, everyone has their theorys about what part of the equipt is MOST important, you get some people with under $1000 receivers running 2-3,000$ speakers, then you have people doing the complete opposite. I like to keep things in about the same range.

    I am running a Parasound avc-1800 pre-amp (retail USE to be $1200, now they are about $899) (it is only your basic 5.1 set-up but does use some very nice sounding burr-brown DA/AD converters) with a $2300 marsh amp, a $600 rotel amp for center and rears, a 222es SACD player, a DVD-A a10, and B&W CDM7nt and CdmCnt speaks, my point is that I don't have anything that would be considered "world-class" (except maybe the Marsh amp I just got, but i got it for almost 60% off, or else I wouldn't have bought it), and I think that both my dads and my system sound very good.

    I once compared my bros JBLs (HLS 820??) to my old B&W 602, i think that the 602 sounded a bit more detailed, but perhaps that is b/c I like the tweeter that B&W uses, so maybe they aren't necessarily "bettter".
     
  17. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

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    Interesting situation. Let me tell you that I haven't heard the 2 pre-amps you are considering. I do have some experience with the speakers, my little bro has a pair, they are certainly very very good for the $$ (actually I think that they are sort of a "sleeper speaker" as far as sound good, but know getting much press, or costing very much, that being said My dad has the 976 rotel pre amp hooked up to the McIntosh 202 amp (a $3500 amp iirc) and to B&W cdm9nt speaks. My freind owns a dealer that sells rotel, he tells me that at the middle/end of last year that rotel didn't even sell their old high end pre-amp (1065??) b/c so many people were buying hte 976 and very happy with it (in hind site, it could have been b/c of hte new one coming out). My point is, the $1200 now outdated/cheaper pre from rotel sounds VERY good on his system, he is also running SACD so you can really hear how good it sounds. This is always a delema, what to upgrade, everyone has their theorys about what part of the equipt is MOST important, you get some people with under $1000 receivers running 2-3,000$ speakers, then you have people doing the complete opposite. I like to keep things in about the same range.

    I am running a Parasound avc-1800 pre-amp (retail USE to be $1200, now they are about $899) (it is only your basic 5.1 set-up but does use some very nice sounding burr-brown DA/AD converters) with a $2300 marsh amp, a $600 rotel amp for center and rears, a 222es SACD player, a DVD-A a10, and B&W CDM7nt and CdmCnt speaks, my point is that I don't have anything that would be considered "world-class" (except maybe the Marsh amp I just got, but i got it for almost 60% off, or else I wouldn't have bought it), and I think that both my dads and my system sound very good.

    I once compared my bros JBLs (HLS 820??) to my old B&W 602, i think that the 602 sounded a bit more detailed, but perhaps that is b/c I like the tweeter that B&W uses, so maybe they aren't necessarily "bettter".

    I get the feeling that you really want the speaks and the Anthem (who wouldn't?), but I bet you are VERY satisfied with the demo you will have this weekend and it will sound very good (it sounds like the "features" are what is lacking the most in the Rotel, but for me, I am just a 5.1 guy who really doesn't care (at this point) to move to 6.1, 7.1, 10.2 or whatever it will be tomarrow, my feeling is that a very good 5.1 system is much better than a 6.1 with lesser equipt and speakers), I bet either way you go, you will always wonder "what if" that is the hard thing about being on a budget (like most of us are).

    the real ? mark is, will you get the Rotel+speaks and always think "if I just got the Anthem" and always look back, and make that your next upgrade, or if you get the anthem say to yourself "man, I just can't wait til i get those new speakers"

    you have a classic case of "upgraditis" with $ burning a hole in your pocket. GOOD LUCK!!
     
  18. Bob-N

    Bob-N Supporting Actor

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    Legairre,

    Ah, it's the ol' speaker spoiler issue.

    I had the same problem when I had bought my 602's which was paired w/a ASW2000 (I think) sub at the store. My boss wanted to listen to some floor standers and listened to the CDM7NT/9NT w/o sub. Man, for a couple of weeks, I was bummed about my 602's and had the major jones for the CDMs.

    Once I got out of my stupor and figured in the extra cost, I found that the 602's broke in and sounded great (w/my SVS sub) in my living room and haven't had a problem since.

    Not to say that I'll go and upgrade my 602's to CDM's or even N800's someday, but it won't be in the near future.

    Probably didn't help much but I have an idea of what you're experiencing.

    Bob
     
  19. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

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    sorry for the double post, I hit a button after the 1st one, and I wasn't finished, read the 2nd post for more info.
     

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