Rotel RSP-1066 Bass Management Report (1 Viewer)

[Dre J]

Hello,
I've spent a good deal of time characterizing the Rotel RSP-1066's bass management under all input conditions. Below is the link to my web page with Rotel's Bass management report and workarounds for using the Unit by itself.
Hello,
I've spent a good deal of time characterizing the Rotel RSP-1066's bass management under all input conditions. Below is the link to my web page with Rotel's Bass management report and workarounds for using the Unit by itself.
Link Removed
Updated 09/02/02 to include Small speaker setting note for 2-channel analog.
Enjoy!
My next report will explain how the Rotel can be used with additional devices to gain full bass management control. Stay tuned!
Update 08/12/02
First installment of additional device control.
Rotel RSP-1066 plus Outlaw ICBM Bass Management Fix Report
(not including multi-channel analog input)
Update 08/13/02
Second installment of additional device control.
Rotel RSP-1066 plus The Dual ICBM Sandwich Full Bass Management Fix Report
(Including multi-channel analog input)
Enjoy!
Update 08/19/02
Third installment of additional device control.
ROTEL RSP-1066 plus Outlaw Audio ICBM Full Bass Management Fix Report for 5.1 Users Only
(Including the multi-channel analog input using a 5.1 input)
Enjoy!
more to come
Dre

 

[Kevin C Brown]

LPCM and 2 channel analog:

The subwoofer setting for "YES" behaves as it would for the "MAX" subwoofer setting. This error causes the Bass from speakers defined as large to be sent to the subwoofer as well as the full range speaker.

Does Rotel know? Seems like a big deal to me. (I listen to 80% 2 channel music.)

I'm waiting for the Outlaw, and hopefully that doesn't have this problem. I *know* that my current Sony pre/pro doesn't.

There's a lot of Rotel threads on the Home Theater forum at HTGuide.com.

 

[Dre J]

Kevin,

I believe they are aware of the issue, at least now they are. I just hope they can find a reasonable fix for the multi-channel 5.1 analog input that won't require the extra hardware I'm adding to overcome this issue.

Dre

 

[JohnKE]

Can you tell what the crossover settings are on my 1066 when I set my front speakers to small instead of large?

Thanks,,,

 

[Kevin C Brown]

This thread should be retitled: "Rotel RSP-1066 bass management doesn't work right" !
I just checked out the links on htguide.com. This *is* a big deal. The pre/pro does not work the way it is supposed to.
"Double bass" for the 5.1 analog inputs as well as all 2 channel sources...
... And just as I was in the process of reconsidering the Rotel along with the Pioneer 45a which probably will have bass management of its own for SACD and DVD-A ...

 

[Brian Corr]

Kevin,
I'm not positive but I thought the OUtlaw had the same issue with bass mgmt. They both use the cirrus chip so it wouldn't be out of the question that they both worked the same.

 

[Dre J]

John,

The crossover is the value you have chosen in the Subwoofer setup menu. With speakers set to small, except for the 5.1 multi-channel inputs, the system functions normally for 2-channel LPCM. For analog 2-channel, The small setting does nothing for the speakers. The speakers get a full range signal and the subwoofer get's evelything below what is set on the crossover setting for the lowpass filter in the subwoofer setup menu.

My report identifies errors and end user workarounds. All situations except the 5.1 analog inputs can be solved. By solved, I mean made to provide proper levels.

Kevin, as stated in the report. There is a workaround to achieve proper levels for all but the 5.1 inputs.

 

[JohnKE]

Does anyone know if a firmware update also allow independent crossovers settings for fronts, center, etc.

For example, in a perfect world, I would like to crossover my mains at 60 hz and my sub at 80hz, *then* calibrate and set volume levels.

Comments? Suggestions? Would this require a hardware change?

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Dre- OK, I misread the LPCM. But ...

For analog 2-channel, The small setting does nothing for the speakers.

The suggested fix is to set the sub to no, which turns the sub off. But if I don't have full range mains, I'm still hosed, right?

Brain- Yes, the Outlaw also has the 5.1 analog double bass problem running full range mains. But with the fixed 80 Hz analog crossover engaged, the bass management does work correctly.

 

[Jeff Kohn]

All situations except the 5.1 analog inputs can be solved. By solved, I mean made to provide proper levels.

I'm not sure I consider having to go into the menu and turning the sub off a solution, especially since the Subwoofer setting of "Yes" behaves the same as "Max", which can't be right since there would be no reason to have both.

I've seen it mentioned that the 1066 and 950 have the same DSP's, but has anybody actually verified that? They may both use chips from Crystal, but if they use the same one why are the capabilities different between the two? (triple x-over, CES vs RS).

 

[BruceD]

I don't expect Rotel and Outlaw have to use the exact same DSP chip to experience similiar problems with bass management. I'm sure Cirrus is like most other developers and shares lots of code between it's various DSP chips.

 

[Dre J]

Kevin,

If your mains are not full range, then I'd suggest finding a Sub woofer level that mates with the natural roll-off of your speakers and use that value in the subwoofer crossover setting.

Jeff,

My report covers the suggested fix for Rotel to implement. The end user workaround is just that. A workaround until it can be fixed, I hope. The suggested fix section of my report is for Rotel to consider. The end user workaround is what I've found to help us in the mean time.

BTW: I have used a macro created for the Rotel remote to turn the sub off or on when listening to two channel audio.

Hope this helps
Dre

 

[rodneyH]

I just got the 1066, let me see if I understand this right, to solve the problem of double bass,

for 2 channel analog AND PCM (digital) just set the default to "NO Sub", that solves the double bass problem, but creates a problem in the fact that not everybody owns full range 2 main speakers (although mine are very close so perhaps that is the "best" solution? and the best way to get the "clearest and most accurate" signal)

I read on another forum that you could also do another option that may help, just decrease the sub volume to very low levels and set the default to that set up, so you are getting the "full range (relatively)" to the "mains" and the sub is just set at an extremely low volume, TO add to that, say the mains go to 38 Hz (like mine do), perhaps just set the default for that specific input at 40Hz and for DD and DTS set it at 80 (or 60, or 100, or whatever you like) that way, it is ONLY covering the very lowest bass anyway (perhaps this solution could be done at the sub crossover, just set it at "40Hz" on the actually sub amp/crossover, would either of those options work?? (or can you not designate a different freq for the sub for different inputs??

btw, it looks like all the rotel guys went to another site?

 

[rodneyH]

well, I just went and played around with the settings, one of my options is wrong. You can't set the sub crossover to different Freq based on the format/input (DTS, DD, LPCM, Analog, multi-ch, etc...) once you set it at a certain setting, it stays there for all formats, BUT In the process I did realize that that maybe my best option. Just set it at 40Hz (since my mains go to 38Hz anyway) and always have the sub on. That seems to be the best option for me, WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK????

btw, the crossover in the Rotel is VERY effective and it works very well, not a lot of higher frequencies sneeking in (like some crossovers I have heard), so that is GOOD

anyway let me know what you think.

the ONLY problem I may see is that, if I have all the rears and centers set at "small" does that mean that everything above 40Hz goes there as well?? that may not be so good?

 

[RichardMA]

For example, in a perfect world, I would like to crossover my mains at 60 hz and my sub at 80hz, *then* calibrate and set volume levels.

My Sony TA-E9000 allows this. Makes it easy when
experimenting with different speaker systems, placements.

 

[rodneyH]

Richard, congrats, I guess you live in a "perfect" world then (tic).

 

[Kevin C Brown]

btw, the crossover in the Rotel is VERY effective and it works very well, not a lot of higher frequencies sneeking in (like some crossovers I have heard), so that is GOOD

That's how a crossover is *supposed* to work. Not rocket science.
I've got my perfect world too with my Sony E9kES. "Triple crossover" 3 years before Outlaw, and bass management that works on everything the way it's supposed to. Just no DPL 2, 5.1 analog inputs, DD EX, DTS-ES, well, you get the idea...
That's what makes it so frustrating that the Outlaw and Rotel don't work the way that they should...
(Some engineer somewhere screwed up.)

 

[RichardMA]

Richard, congrats, I guess you live in a "perfect" world then (tic).

No, if we lived in a perfect world, we would never need
bass management or equalizers.
But I'd settle for a world in which there was some
uniformity in recording of DVDs, CDs, etc.

 

[rodneyH]

Richard, LOL!! so true

not to be rude, but can we get this back to the topic at hand, I seriously want to know owners of the 1066 opinion of hte best set up option. Thanx

 

[Andrew Pratt]

Rotel is aware of the problem and they tell me it will be fixed in the next rotel pre amp. They aren't sure what they'll be able to fix with firmware but I'm keeping on them to come up with a fix of some sort. What I've done is leave the sub turned on but set the LFE level for the CD player to be very low...while this isn't ideal it works for me.