Rotel is the greatest! & 1090 & 1095 amp, Breaker trip solution...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dean_Sol, Mar 12, 2002.

  1. Dean_Sol

    Dean_Sol Auditioning

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    I figured i'd post my Rotel experience with yall....
    I purchased an RB-1090 (400x2) and RMB-1095 (200x5) several months ago. Everything worked great! My entire theater was plugged into a 20amp dedicated outlet. Well, one day the 1090 just shuts down and doesn't turn on again (I.E. lights don't even turn on). I take the 1090 back to the dealer and they send it back to Rotel (No charge to me). Rotel has the amp for about three weeks, and they realize that in order to fix it, they will have to send it to Japan.
    So what does Rotel do??? They send me a BRAND NEW AMP at no cost to me. Even though it took a while for them to get an amp back to me, they finally did and at no charge.
    Well, I plug the NEW amp back into my system, and everything shuts down. The breaker trips everytime the NEW 1090 powers on. So then, I move the 1090 to its OWN 20 amp dedicated circuit. Power on, and it trips the 20 amp breaker. Boy was a puzzled. Called up Rotel and figured out that they had modified the specs on the new 1090s (they put in a larger power supply [​IMG]). Then after reading through this forum, emailing a couple of folks, and calling up my circuit breaker manufacturer, we figure out that I need more than just a standard 20amp breaker. I needed a High Magnetic 20amp circuit breaker that can handle the very high in-rush current of the 1090. So I install two seperate High Magnetic 20amp breakers (SquareD part# QO120HM) (One for each amp)and everything works flawlessly!!
    Thanks Rotel, you have one happy customer and supporter!![​IMG]
    Dean
     
  2. Joe e h

    Joe e h Stunt Coordinator

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    Dean

    I am waiting on my RMB-1095 to arrive. I am installing a new line this weekend just for the amp. This is very interseting information. I will be sure to pick up that breaker.

    I hope you do not mind if I post your information to another person. He just returned his 1095 for the "Breaker" problem. The amp worked fine at the store.

    Joe
     
  3. Dean_Sol

    Dean_Sol Auditioning

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    Joe,

    Sure no problem. In fact, I brought the new 1090 back to the dealer (AV solutions) and it worked perfectly. That is how I new the amp at least worked and that something had to be wrong with my breaker.

    Dean
     
  4. BruZZi

    BruZZi Second Unit

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    Hi ,There's only one 15amp outlet close to my system and believe or not ,I have a RMB-1095 using 4 channels (no center speaker at this moment)connected together with a Denon 4800 as pre/pro,one pinnacle sub(300w cont-600w peak),Dvd player,Tv and a Behringer Feedback Destroyer with no problems at all. But just to be safe,I'll be moving the sub to a different outlet using a extension cord this weekend.
     
  5. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    Hi Dean,
    A friend of mine e-mailed me a couple of days ago with someone having this same problem...was that you?
    If so, cool, if not...still cool[​IMG] I bought a 1090 about a month ago and had the same problem you did. A short duration breaker with wiring that I had performed. I thought I had screwed something up running the new circuits. Did the same as you...brought it back to the shop, no problems, called Rotel...they didn't have an answer...so I switched to an existing outlet in my house and it worked fine. Apparently, the older style breakers (10 yrs old+) had a longer duration of in-flux before breaking...the new ones are VERY safe for preventing electrocution. I called Rotel a second time and the guy said others were having the same problem. That is one HELL of a power supply they added[​IMG]
    I'm glad to hear you got it working and a brand new amp out of the deal...good payback for hefting that beast in and out of the rack[​IMG] I feel your pain! I hadn't taken the time to put in a new breaker...I'm still running my 1090 off the older circuit. Your information on what type of breaker is very useful. These amps are really something else...extremely powerful.
    Time to go watch a flick,
    Jeremy
     
  6. Dennis Oblow

    Dennis Oblow Stunt Coordinator

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    Dennis
    My 1095 is on a 15amp circuit with an AVM 20 a dvd player a vcr and a cable box and works just fine.
     
  7. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    My 1095 is on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. No problems so far.
    Dean, NOW THAT"S WHAT I CALL SERVICE. Congrats on the replacement. Oh yeah, I love my 1095.[​IMG]
     
  8. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    I think, from my conversations with my local B&M and Rotel, the 1090 has a much more significant current draw at power up than the 1095. I've had no problems powering up the 1095 on the new circuits, just the 1090.

    If you're using either amplifier, its best to give them their own circuit...or at least sharing it with insignificant loads like DVD and CD players or some pre/pros. If you are using a stand alone receiver as a pre/pro...the receiver and the Rotels should each have their own circuit, IMO. This way you are not starving either component of its lifejuice.

    Jeremy
     
  9. itai

    itai Stunt Coordinator

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    well, if America will lose its power one evening, and it will be on cnn an ol, i'll know its all you guys, watching dvds at the same time!! hehe...
     
  10. Jeff Kohn

    Jeff Kohn Supporting Actor

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    I have a question for you guys running a 20A circuit. Are you using any kind of power-consditioner or surge protector? If so, what model is it and is it rated for 20A? I was looking at some of the Panamax conditioners, but they're only rated for 15A and I'm wondering if I should try to find one that can handle more current. Thing is, I don't want to break the bank on a power-conditioner, either; at $499 the MAX-5300 is really about as much as I want to spend unless it's really critical. I don't own a Rotel amp, but will be purchasing the Outlaw 770 which is 200Wx7 with max power usage of 1800W.

    Jeff
     
  11. Sankar

    Sankar Second Unit

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  12. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    "Am I to understand from this that the amp draws over 20 amperes of current on start up? "

    Sankar,

    I think it is the actual wattage drawn at power up and the duration of the "in flux" of power. Some of the new breakers are "short duration" breakers. If there is a high current draw for more than a second, it will trip. The older breakers allowed 3-4 second influx of massive wattage before tripping...the new ones only allow a half a second to a full second. It is a safety measure on a lot of the new breakers, nothing more...this is why the 1090 will power up on an older 15 or 20 amp breaker just fine.

    Jeff,

    I am running my amplifier straight out of the wall..no conditioner on it. The rest of my gear is run through a Monster Power conditioner. In Alaska, we don't have lightning...so there is much less of an opportunity for major power surges. Not that this is the correct way, but for my purposes...it works fine, not to mention the power is clean from the wall with no interference.

    Jeremy
     
  13. Lee-c

    Lee-c Second Unit

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    Jeff: The Panamax 1000+ can be had for well less than $300 and will handle the 1800 watts of that amp.
    Just don't plug anything else but the amp into that surge protector. You can get a second one
    to handle the rest of your stereo gear. And you can plug a 1000+ into a 20 amp circuit, but
    it will trip if you go over 15 amps (there may be some room to go a little over), but that's
    not an issue 99% of the time. So don't worry about it. [​IMG]
     
  14. Bob-N

    Bob-N Supporting Actor

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    The power up power (or inrush current) is typically high when you turn the unit off that has been off for a while. The high current draw upon start up is due to large filter caps that need to be "filled" before the power supply can begin to supply power to the rest of the unit. So you're likely to see 2-3 times the power rating of the unit for a very short duration.

    It's like when you start up your car. When you start the car, it takes tons of "juice" to get the car started and that's where the CCA rating (cold cranking amps) comes into play. It's typically in the 100A range for car batteries.

    Bob
     
  15. Dennis B

    Dennis B Stunt Coordinator

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    Guys,
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but that shouldn't be the case when the amp is left in stand-by, would it?
    Cause my 1075 sometimes does and sometimes doesn't trip the breaker, even with stand-by engaged...[​IMG] weird...[​IMG]
     
  16. Bob-N

    Bob-N Supporting Actor

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    Dennis,

    Hmmm, that is a bit strange but I don't know how the stand by function works in the Rotel amps. In my laptop, I have to press a button if it goes into sleep mode. Based on what the manual says, the only thing that is active is the power control circuit which draws milliamps of current. I would guess that if that's the case with the amp, it isn't enough current to keep the caps fully "juiced". Also another educated guess is that the caps will probably discharge slower than if you turned your amp completely off due to the milliamp draw (possible leakage current to the caps) of the stand-by circuitry.

    I worked with power supplies (as an applications engineer, EE by trade) and a bit of design, so that's where my experience lies.

    Bob
     
  17. Dennis B

    Dennis B Stunt Coordinator

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    Bob,
    I agree with you and understand where you're coming from (I'm an EE, too), and it would explain the breaker's behavior. But if that's true then a stand-by function isn't very useful until we get amps with remotes...[​IMG] which may make a lot of sense since there's not even a visual indication on the 1075 that it's in standby mode.
    Would it hurt the amp to leave it on 24x7?
     
  18. Lee-c

    Lee-c Second Unit

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    Dennis: It won't hurt to leave the amp on. In fact, it's generally recommended to leave

    power amps on all the time. The idea being that the amp is under the greatest stress on start

    up when all that current has to rush in. So if you leave it on, it's less fatiguing on the gear.

    Therefore the amp will be less likely to break.
     
  19. BruZZi

    BruZZi Second Unit

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    Hey Dennis B, It's nice to see a Fellow Braziliam here at HTF. [​IMG]
     
  20. Bob-N

    Bob-N Supporting Actor

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    Dennis,
    Hehe. True enough for a dedicated couch potato.[​IMG]
    I had read a thread a while ago stating the even in standby mode, the poster's amp sucked up about $10-20/month worth of power!
    I would agree with Lee. Just like the car analogy again. Most wear and tear is turning on the engine and in stop and go traffic. Keep a steady pace (i.e. steady power draw) will lead to a longer life. I guess that could go as well to life in general....[​IMG]
    I'm out. Nighty night from California!
    Bob
     

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