The amp is 4 months old, brand new condition and the Ref 50 is 2 weeks old, brand new condition. Reference 50 is black face. I haven't even had time to program the remote. Selling due to family emergency and need to raise money fast. I realize that I don't have any feedback here on HTF, but if you look at my feedback at ebay, under the name "dblcltch", I have 70 positive feedbacks. Please feel free to email me. Buyer pays all shipping costs, but no bogus handling/packing charges. $4100. for both and I will include a brand new Monster Cable 1 meter I406HT 6 channel inner connect with the package. Thanks for looking.