Robocop Unrated/NC17-only on Criterion? (1 Viewer)

[Scott_MacD]

Well, Mark..

Tell him, to tell him, that we all like that bit, and that his pain was worth it.. One of the highlights of a fabulous film.

I'll gladly tradeup my MGM R2 disc for a properly branched (or perhaps just) director's cut. If it's released on it's own, I'll even get rid of the awful sequels that were bundled with the R2 disc.

 

[Anthony Connor]

I am glad I bought the Criterion Edition I also have the Spinal Tap DVD.

/me just rubs it in.


Anthony

 

[RobD]

The branching is noticeable on the R2 does'nt take as long as a layer change though. I picked that trilogy up so cheap I'm not worried anyway (£8!?!).

 

[Bryan Tuck]

Really there's nothing wrong with the branching. On my player you can hardly notice it (I only know the branching points as my display shows "search" for a fraction of a second). Each branching point is less disruptive than a typical layer change. Do you want all layer changes fixed?

I apologize. I actually haven't seen the R2 disc. It's just that it seems everytime anyone says anything about it, they usually mention the branching pauses. It just seems like it would be distracting for such brief extensions. Once again, I'm sorry; I shouldn't have assumed.

Suffice it to say, I'm glad I have the Criterion disc, but I would probably buy a R1 SE from MGM. Hopefully, they'll make it available separately.

 

[Sven Lorenz]

I apologize. I actually haven't seen the R2 disc. It's just that it seems everytime anyone says anything about it, they usually mention the branching pauses. It just seems like it would be distracting for such brief extensions. Once again, I'm sorry; I shouldn't have assumed.

I had the R2 disc and on the three players I tried it on the pauses were extremely disruptive.
There's a pause before and a pause after every inserted scene and, at least to me, that was so annoying that I sold the DVD on eBay.
There's no excuse for using integrated branching just to save some money on the production of the DVD.

 

[James Reader]

It's not to save money. It's becuase no European authoring house can do seamless branching properly. True seamless branching is a very complex art.

There's a thread where I posted everything I know about seamless branching (and no one's disputed any of it) but it involves the same technology as Disney use for their alternative angles when presenting other language titles.

The main problems is the GOPS (groups of pictures) on a simple alternative angle are 1 for 1 - the alternative 'branch' lasts the same as the original branch so everything is a 1-1 ratio. This is also how selectable multiple angles are implemented - they are interwoven into the video stream and when reading ahead, the player ignores any GOPS that aren't marked as belonging to the required angle.

example:

ANGLE: 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2

When branching to different lengths of video (and audio) as true seamless branching does, the gops have to be spread out in a differing ratio:

example:

ANGLE 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2

In the example above, branch 2 is twice as long as branch 1. However, although the bandwidth is effectively increased (but no where near tripled) by the player discarding unwanted gops, care needs to be taken to ensure that the picture and sound quality are not visibly affected. Also I'm not sure of the specifics, but should the second branch be, say, three times the length of the original branch, it's not possible to simply encode the branch as

ANGLE 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2

and retain optimum quality, you may need to encode:

ANGLE 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2| 2 | 2 | 1 | 2

to keep quality. This is due to MPEG keyframes and the like and is quite complicated.

Needless to say, complex planning and timing has to be done throughout the branches.

But that's basically it - it's "seamless" as all of the branches are in the same data stream, unlike the branching used on R2 Robocop or the "white rabbit" feature on "the Matrix".

I quoted a couple of quotes from disc authors on my other thread here, but it was hard work finding them. And there's a reason - most people just don't understand it. (And I'm sure I only understand less than 5% of it)

 

[Sven Lorenz]

But in the end it's still a money issue - people who are able to do it can be hired and machines that are needed can be bought.
And they could've just included a second DVD with the Director's Cut - that way no branching would've been needed.

 

[Tim Ke]

I watched the r4 SE and it ran perfectly without any of these slight pauses you guys are all talking about! I don't know if this is only a problem with the r2 version...

 

[James Reader]

Well, yes. I suppose ultimately it is money. Only Fox (and to a limited extent Disney) seem to support Seamless Branching (Beauty and the Beast couldn't support it, as it was using the angle feature for the WIP version - I'm hoping this years Lion King will use true seamless branching like their "Kate & Leopold" disc did).

But I see "Seamless Branching" as being like "Pan and Scan on-the-fly". A good idea that should work but doesn't because it takes too much time and effort to implement properly.

How many PaSOtF titles can you name? Not many. How many of them actually Pan? None I would imagine.

Hopefully HD-DVD will sort out these issues, being as the original DVD spec clearly wasn't up to speed. (Although it's debatable if you'd actually want P&S on a HD release).

I watched the r4 SE and it ran perfectly without any of these slight pauses you guys are all talking about! I don't know if this is only a problem with the r2 version...

The R2 is perfectly fine on my player too. I was defending MGM!

 

[Matt Pelham]

Funny you mention that, because a few seconds of beheadings were removed from Starship Troopers in order to get an "R".

 

[Tony Whalen]

Gotta love the Criterion Robo. That anamatronic Murphy... man! Great stuff there.

 

[Jon Robertson]

I'm wondering whether the reason the MGM special edition of Robocop is taking forever and a year to come out is because they're waiting until seamless branching facilities become available.

From what I've read, the MGM certainly sounds like an improvement over the Criterion with the same commentary participants being recorded together this time, plus a new documentary, deleted scenes, storyboard comparisons and other stuff.

I'd love to pick it up, but certainly not at the expense of a jerkily-branched gore inserts. Seeing as MGM's US edition of Dressed to Kill was genuinely seamless, I'd hope the same for the eventual R1 SE of Robocop.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I'm wondering whether the reason the MGM special edition of Robocop is taking forever and a year to come out is because they're waiting until seamless branching facilities become available.

MGM has been authoriing quite a number of their UK exclusives in the US, possibly all of them, so I'm going to say no

 

[WillardK]

Those commenting about the importance of the added footage are not just being academic.

I remember seeing Robocop at the theater and afterwards arguing with a friend about it's intentions. To me it seemed to cross the line and become what it was parodying. It seemed either deliberately hateful of it's audience or inept at parody and I've never liked the film much because of that impression. What a difference a few seconds make! Others might not go so far, but imo the restored version is an ENTIRELY different film.

 

[Kenneth English]

I remember seeing Robocop at the theater and afterwards arguing with a friend about it's intentions. To me it seemed to cross the line and become what it was parodying.

Exactly my thoughts regarding Starship Troopers. I don't think Verhoeven (or Neumeier) is nearly the master satirist he seems to think he is. He hit a bullseye with RoboCop but really missed the mark with Troopers.

BTW: Doesn't MGM also own the two RoboCop sequels? I can do without Part 3, but RoboCop 2 was pretty good IMO. Love that final extended battle between RoboCop and Cain. Ultra-violent cinema at it's finest.

When's the next MGM chat going to be? We need to pester them about getting these movies released.

 

[MikeEckman]

Any update on the MGM Region 1 Robocop SE? I remember this was announced sometime last year at the same time that the Dances with Wolves SE was announced, and DWW is already out. Although I have the Criterion DVD, I am clamoring for an anamorphic version, and I do not want to waste money on the barebones MGM DVD. Anyone?

 

[Mark_Wilson]

Anyone know if the R3 Korea Robocop is uncut?

 

[MikeEckman]

ttt
Has anyone heard anything new? Thanks.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

The R3 Korean one is definitely uncut and is anamorphic.

Jeff

 

[Morgan Holly]

it involves the same technology as Disney use for their alternative angles when presenting other language titles

It actually doesn't. The Disney titles just use angles. I assume you're talking about the main and end titles on the Disney discs.

A big reason why you don't see seamless branching more often is that only the Panasonic and Toshiba authoring systems support seamless branching. Most independant authoring facilities use Sonic or Spruce authoring solutions.