Robert_J and others: Question about 2 dishes, 3 sats & 4 receivers

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by RAF, Jul 25, 2001.

  1. RAF

    RAF Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    7,061
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry if this has been answered before but I'm trying to figure out some wiring requirements for my upcoming DISH installation. I will be feeding 4 separate monitors (four receivers) with existing RG-6 cabling in my house. (Yes, there is a dedicated RG-6 feed for each receiver that comes to a common location in my garage.) Incidentally, I'm planning on the following receivers: A 6000, a 501 PVR, and two 301's.
    My source will be 2 dishes mounted on an external pole on my property (not on the roof) about 50' from the garage. One, of course will be a Dish 500 (110 & 119) and the other will be a Dish 300 (61.5) for HDTV reception, etc. I intend to run an underground conduit from the pole to the garage and to place the switch(es) on a panel in the garage rather than anything except the dishes on the pole.
    It is my understanding that an SW64 switch will do everything I need and, being powered, help with the cable lengths which will be a little longer than with a normal roof mount.
    Here's my basic question. How many cables will have to be run through the underground conduit from the two dishes if the switches are in the house? We'll probably run weatherproof cable, just to be safe, and I want to be sure the conduit is big enough to accommodate all the necessary cables. I think someone mentioned to me a 2" diameter conduit.
    Will this do the trick? It appears, from a picture I saw, that the SW64 has six inputs and four outputs. I assume that the 4 outputs go to the 4 receivers via the existing RG-6, but where exactly (which dishes?) do the 6 input cables come from? I'm getting mixed signals (no pun intended) on this from several sources. Some say I'll be feeding 4 cables into the switch; some say 6, and one person even told me I would need 7!
    So if you would be kind enough to clear this up for me I would greatly appreciate it. Am I missing any other items from this general scenario? (Disregarding for a moment the possible addition, later on, of an OTA module and another direct wire from the antenna to the 6000 for HDTV local broadcasting.)
    Thanks in advance.
    ------------------
    RAF
    [Demented Video Dude since 1997]
    [Computer Maven since 1956]
    ["PITA" since 1942]
    My HT (latest update 02/05/01)
     
  2. Robert_J

    Robert_J Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2000
    Messages:
    8,288
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Mississippi
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Your Dish500 has 2 dual LNB's. Your Dish300 has 1 dual LNB. Each dual LNB has 2 connectors for coax cable. That's 6 connectors total. All connections must be used for the whole thing to work correctly. (If you want to know why, let me know.)
    2" conduit with six cables. That sounds like a tight fit but I think it will work.
    The SW64 has six inputs. Each pair will connect to an LNB. The guy that said you would need seven cables was thinking about DirecTV. They have a switch that combines signals from 3 dual LNB's AND an antenna. Dish doesn't have a switch like that. You can do it with diplexors but that adds complexity and something else to trouble shoot. You already have that covered with your direct wire from the antenna to the OTA module.
    Dish recommends that there be less than 100' from the dish(es) to the receiver(s). Experienced installers at DBSforums have gone up to 150+ using quality RG6 and crimp on F-connectors.
    If you're running the cable yourself, I recommend the RCA brand stripper and crimper from Home Depot or Rat Shack. They are about $10 each and work very well. I also use the Ideal brand F-connectors from Home Depot on most connections. Connections that will be exposed to the weather get the RCA heavy duty F-connector with the rubber gasket inside.
    -Robert
     
  3. Chip_Slattery

    Chip_Slattery Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    0
    Robert,
    Well, Robert_J beat me to the punch but what the heck...you've got mail. [​IMG]
    Chip
     
  4. RAF

    RAF Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    7,061
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chip,
    And I appreciate the feedback and the details. I'm going to answer your e-mail here so as to keep the dialogue going in open forum if you don't mind.
    I now realize, from Robert-J's and your explanations that there will be six coaxial cables in the conduit. I'm having a guy install this for me (I'll dig the trench for the conduit, etc. and he's going to do all the wiring as well as cleaning up a bunch of wires, both RG-6 and telephone, in the process.) Do you feel that a 2" conduit will be sufficient to hold six cables (a fairly straight run to the house with "LB" fittings at each end for ease of installation.)? Also, I notice that the power inserter is wired in the cable run to Receiver #1. I assume that this module powers the SW64 (allowing longer cable lengths). Is there any reason it's linked to Receiver #1 (which will be my 6000) or is that just coincidental in the diagram?
    Once again, thanks for all the help. From what I've read I assume that once the installation is completed I will have seamless integration of all signals from my receiver menus and I don't have to worry about what dish is capturing which signal since everything is automatically switched via the menu. And, finally, are there any pitfalls I should have a heads-up on as I tackle this? My "installer" is stopping by next week with a couple of dishes and receivers to pinpoint exactly the best place to install the pole. Then I'll prep the property, install the conduit and we'll take it from there.
    Take care.
    ------------------
    RAF
    [Demented Video Dude since 1997]
    [Computer Maven since 1956]
    ["PITA" since 1942]
    My HT (latest update 02/05/01)
     
  5. Robert_J

    Robert_J Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2000
    Messages:
    8,288
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Mississippi
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Robert,
    Rather than try to explain right hand/left hand polarities, etc. and make a ton of mistakes, I'll point you to an expert.
    http://www.dbsforums.com/reviews/tech1_6.html
    On a different subject. We're planning on building a house in the next six months and a dedicated theater is in the plans. Is a VW10HT worth the money compared to other, cheaper 4x3 projectors?
    -Robert
     
  6. Scott Kimball

    Scott Kimball Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 8, 2000
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have two dishes (one for 110, a separate for 119 - I'm shooting through small holes in the foliage and couldn't get a 9 degree spread from one location...).
    Anyhoo... My runs are both on the order of 150' with no amps and I've had no problem. I used gel-filled direct bury cable without conduit (actually, I used a few feet of conduit around the house where digging is likely for planting...). One of the cables has been in place for about 6 years, and there is no sign of trouble. The other was a more recent addition.
    You might consider going without full-length conduit for money savings and ease of installation. If you do manage to cut a line in the future, it's easy enough to put in a waterproof splice with a negligible impact on signal strength.
    -Scott
     
  7. Chip_Slattery

    Chip_Slattery Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  8. RAF

    RAF Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    7,061
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the numbers...
    Robert-J,
    Thanks for the technical article reference. I've printed it out for reading. (The pictures are no longer at the site listed, but I think the meat of the article will help me understand this a bit more.)
    And regarding the SONY VW10HT, I still feel it offers the best bang for your projection buck, especially in light of its performance and ease of use and maintenance. When I purchased mine 1.5 years ago I paid $5500 (on an $8000 list). I understand that the VW10HT can now be had for less than $4800 (maybe even lower) which makes it, IMHO, a tremendous bargain. Supposedly there's a "Model 11HT" on the way, but from the specs it's evolutionary rather than revolutionary and will probably serve to lower the price of the 10HT even more when it arrives (this is a good thing). But I'm not considering an upgrade. To me it doesn't offer a new magnitude of increased performance. I think it will take a newer technology to do that for me sometime way down the line.
    Also, being one of the very few true 16:9 panel HDTV projectors out there makes it a natural in this area. Everyone I talk to raves about the HDTV image on the VW10HT (thus my questions here in the Satellite section!)
    Scott,
    Thanks for the heads up on gel-filled direct bury cable and the length issue. This is helpful. (BTW, do you recall the approximate diameter of the gel-filled RG-6?)
    Chip,
    Thanks for the information on the power inserter and your thoughts on conduit size.
    Keep those cards and letters coming, gang. Take care.
    ------------------
    RAF
    [Demented Video Dude since 1997]
    [Computer Maven since 1956]
    ["PITA" since 1942]
    My HT (latest update 02/05/01)
     
  9. Scott Kimball

    Scott Kimball Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 8, 2000
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't recall precisely the diameter of the gelled RG6 (I never measured). It was not noticeably larger than standard.
    The gel makes it a bit messy to work with, because when you cut, gel comes out the slice. It does keep water out in case of nicks, though.
    It's certainly more expensive than standard cable, but cheaper than cable+conduit. Not to mention the ease of burial. Just drop your spade, force open a "crack", drop in the cable, stomp the earth back, and you're done. I buried almost a hundred feet in about 1.5 hours. Assuming no rocks or roots, figure a foot a minute.
    -scott
     

Share This Page