RMB-1075 enough for N802s?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dennis B, Mar 27, 2002.

  1. Dennis B

    Dennis B Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seriously, guys, I know power is never enough, but would I really have a problem using an RMB-1075 (120Wx5) to drive Nautilus 802s? What about 803 or 804s? I've already got the Rotel and am now considering a speaker upgrade... but I just can't buy everything together. Right now I am thinking of (802s) or (804s with a good sub).

    Thanks.
     
  2. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Dennis,

    I just bought a pair of 802s this past Saturday. I am using a Rotel 1090 (380w x2 @ 8ohm) and it does an incedible job. I haven't had second thoughts about the combination.

    Do the 802s deserve a better, more expensive amplifier...maybe, maybe not. After the financial impact of my purchase, down the road...I may audition some Krell amplifiers to see if there is a sonic advantage. When I bought the Rotel for my B&W 604s, I also auditioned (in-home) amplifiers from B&K, Krell, HK, and Macintosh. I had a hard time telling the differences between most of them. This may have been because of the time it took me to switch cables, interconnects, and speaker wires...and of course, the 604s are NOT Nautilus speakers.

    I would think that the 802s would be just fine with the 1075, assuming you will bi-amp them especially. You could use 2 channels for each main and the additional channel for your center. They do seem to like a ton of juice, the louder I turn mine up, the better they sound. Do you already have a 1075? Have you considered one of Rotel's 2 channel amps...like the 1080 or 1090?

    Jeremy
     
  3. Dennis B

    Dennis B Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Jeremy,

    Yes, I already have the 1075. I had an RB-1070 for a while at home for evaluation, but eventually decided that the 1075 would be best for me, although from the specs alone the 1070 is a better amp. I really couldn't tell any difference, maybe because there was a 3-day gap between the day I took the 1070 back and the day I hooked the 1075 up.

    When bi-amping the way you suggested, would I get twice as much power per channel (speaker, actually)?

    Thanks.

    PS: Congratulations on your 802s!
     
  4. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dennis,

    I think that for a speaker like the 802 you really need more power than the 1075 will give you. Would the work? Yes. Will they sound good? Yes. Will they sing? No. If you're going to hold on to the Rotel for awhile, I'd go with the 804s.

    Alex
     
  5. ManojM

    ManojM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2002
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Although the B&W Nautiluses are relatively tolerant speakers to most amps, to get the most out of them you do need to have a high current amp with a decent amount of power. I use Nautilus 804s and have used B&K Amplification, which actually worked phenomenally well. I had the opportunity to try Adcom amplification, and this was not very effective, with reasonable mids, metallic highs, and very little bass. Although Rotel has some synergy with B&Ws, and the Nautilus line will do well with them, they do deserve better, and will gratify with better sound as you move into a amp that provides high levels of current. I now run a Classe amp with mine, and others that work well and have the current the Nautilus line likes are Krell, Bryston, Aragon, and Sunfire. As you probably know, one of the main signs of a high current amp is doubling of watts from 8 to 6 to 4 ohms. Although the 804s are 8 ohm speakers, they are listed as going to 3.6 ohms, which is a difficult load to drive well. Hope this helps.[​IMG]
     
  6. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    with the 800 series, I would go with something else (unless it is hte 805), serioulsy, I have been a huge fan of Rotel, and run CDM7NT speaks, I recently upgraded from 150 Rotel watts to a Marsh amp that is 200w, the difference was noticable, and with the 800 series, they even deserve better, IMHO.

    I would recommend Marsh, McIntosh, Aragon, Bryston, or Classe for anything over a 805, don't get me wrong, Rotel makes fine products but it is great value equiptment, NOT the best of the best.
     
  7. Mark C.

    Mark C. Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 21, 1999
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    To allow the 802s to perform at their maximum, you really need to go separate monoblocks, at least 300W per. You're talking a serious investment of thousands of (US) dollars. Bi-amping the speakers with the 1075 is an acceptable solution for the time-being, but it wouldn't be long before you were looking around for more, and better, power.

    Jeremy: do tell, natural cherry, red cherry or black? Speaker cables? WAF??
     
  8. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "When bi-amping the way you suggested, would I get twice as much power per channel (speaker, actually)?"
    Yes Dennis, this is the case. The 1075 is rated at 125w/channel pretty conservatively, isn't it? This would give you 250/channel, probably close to 400 @ 4ohms. IMO, this will do fine for the 802s. They have a sensitivity of 91db, not bad for such a monster.
    Again, there are better choices on the market to power the 802s. I'm in the same situation, bought my amp before my speakers. I'm just curious how the sound could get any better[​IMG] The Rotel 1090 I have does an incredible job for me...I would give your 1075 an audition with the 802s, before making the decision. If you know you want the 802s instead of the 804s, IMO...you'd be better off buying what you want right off the bat. You can always add better amplifiers down the road. Maybe your Rotel dealer will offer a trade-in? You could always step up to the 1090 or 1095...possible option?
    My B&W/Rotel dealer suggested I live with my combo that I have now for a month and he will send me home with a Krell amp...when I'm familiar with the Rotel/802 combo, I can make a better judgement call..
    "Jeremy: do tell, natural cherry, red cherry or black? Speaker cables? WAF??"
    Mark C.
    Red Cherry, gorgeous, multi-layered red-cherry. This artistic, real wood finish provides for a high WAF[​IMG]
    Using StraightWire Encore speaker wire, StraighWire INfo-link digital cables....LaserLink (StraightWIre) amplifier interconnects (un-balanced).
    Jeremy
     
  9. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jeremy, looks like the dealing is setting you up for another sale, just be prepared to buy it BEFORE you listen to it (although I have not heard Krell with B&W and some say that it isn't the best match, but i DON'T know)
     
  10. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Rodney,
    I will NOT buy the Krell unless there is an appreciable difference. I can't beleve the sound can get better than it is right now. I may fall into the Jaleel camp somewhere down the road...ya know, the DBT stuff[​IMG]
    Regardless, my next purchase will be the matching center channel.
    Jeremy
     
  11. Larry B

    Larry B Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,067
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dennis:
    I agree with most of the posters that your Rotel amp is not at the same level as the 802s. While it will no doubt sound good (in fact, probably great), it will come no where near the true potential of those speakers.
    As an interesting aside, a few years ago when I was putting together my system, I had pretty much made up my mind to get a Proceed HPA2. Just for the fun of it ([​IMG] ) I decided to compare it to a Levinson amp, assuming that an amp couldn't possibly matter. It took all of 15 seconds to realize just how wrong I was. The Levinson had (among other things) better bass, better timing, far more detail, and an overall more musical presentation.
    As always, you need to listen.
    Jeremy:
    As you may know, many people find Krell gear to be very cold and analytical. If possible, I would strongly suggest listening to other manufacturers, if at all possible.
    Enjoy your new speakers.
    Larry
    P.S. I ended up with the Levinson.
     
  12. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Larry, Nice system, my dream is a Levinson amp with 804s.

    Jeremy, I didn't think that going from a rotel to a Marsh would make my B&W CDM7NTs sound better, realizing that the 802 is an even better speaker, surely you will notice a difference, but like I said, only do it if you are willing to buy, I was and ended up making the purchase, because I couldn't deny the difference it made (in reality I would have rather it not make a difference and save me some big time $$, or put it else where in the system, but it was amazing). Like Larry said, I have heard other amps sound better with B&W than Krell, just a thought.
     
  13. Dennis B

    Dennis B Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thank you all for your great comments.
    I realize Rotel is not the best of the best, but when I bought it I wasn't seriously thinking about getting 802s. Now you know how it goes, it never ends... [​IMG]
    I'm still considering 804s with maybe a better sub. Right now I have an ASW1000. I could get a Velo HGS and still pay less than I would for the 802s alone...
    Jeremy,
    The 1090/1095 is definitely an option. How about moving the 1075 to the center/surrounds and getting a 1090 for the 802s? There are still better options out there, I'm sure, but wouldn't it sound a little strange having different amp brands powering the speakers...?
    So would a Classe CAV-180 do the job or should I look into one of the CA models? I'm not very familiar with the Bryston and Krell models, which ones would you recommend?
    Thanks.
    PS: I'm still waiting for the best timing to tell you I'm still gonna bug you all with some pre/pro questions... [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 1999
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dennis,

    I have a slightly different opinion. I don't think additional power will provide you with significant improvement for 91dB speakers. Get the bigger Rotels because they are designed better, or wait until you get a good deal on a "higher end" amp. I would go with N802/1075 than N804/more expensive amp.

    FYI, I have even harder to drive NHT 3.3s (6 ohms, 86dB sens, rated to 23hz, retail $4.5k). I drive pretty well with 100 watts from a Citation 5.1 100x4. I have tried biamping and bridging in various combinations over the years with denon, citation, parasound, HK signature, marantz amps.
     
  15. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the insight fellas

    My options are VERY limited when we're talking about higher end amplifiers in Anchorage.

    We have a Krell/Lexicon/Rotel/B&W dealer in town as well as a Macintosh/Snell/B&K/Marantz dealer. The other choice is HK/Sony/Klipsch. The only two amplifiers that will qualify in the range you guys are talking about would be the Macs and Krells. At this point, I'm in no hurry...but down the road, I'll be visiting Seattle, Vegas, and Albuquerque. When I'm in those cities, I will do some auditioning, however it would be impossible to do an in home audition. I believe that you guys heard a difference in the amps you ended up with...but the fact of the matter is that the 802/Rotel combination does sound VERY good to me right now, which is cool...because there is no way in hell my wife would allow me to drop another $4-$8k on a new amplifier. The cool thing about Rotel is that it seems to have a pretty high re-sale price going for them. The 1075, 1095, and 1090 are kind of tough to find on the used market; i.e. ebay, audiogon, or the classifieds of these forums. Obviously people like them for what they do.

    I'm curious as to whether or not any of you have experience with the Rotel 1090? This 2 channel amplifier is pretty wicked for the price. Dual power supplies (dual monoblock design), 380watts/[email protected] and 740 @4 (almost double like the big players), damping factor of 1000, high s/n, balanced/unbalanced options, bi-wirable, heavy duty posts, 85 pounds, etc. For $2000, it was tough to beat, again, with my limited options in Anchorage.

    Obviously, going to a Krell, Mark Levinson, Marsh, Classe type of an amp...it's not going to be the power reserves that will seem more significant. Is the detail, sound stage, transparency, etc. THAT much better from mid-fi, to the high level stuff? The 802s I have were on the floor with an integrated Krell amplifier and a Meridian CD player. I think they sound better in my house with my gear, but the store's sound room is huge and not by any means set up for critical listening to one system. Also, the Krell is the integrated design and as someone mentioned, the sound can be cold from the Krell.

    It does seem that many B&W retailers seem to sell Krell as well...I've seen this in 3 different cities, so that is probably not the greatest gauge.

    What about Macintosh?

    Jeremy
     
  16. Dennis B

    Dennis B Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ricky,
    Oh man, I'm trying sooooo hard not to drop those big bucks on the 802s and now you tell me this...[​IMG]
     
  17. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 1999
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dennis,

    I think the 802/803s are better than the 805s. But I'm not sure between 802 vs 803. You should decide which one is the better buy for you. I'm just saying that your amp is better than you think.
     
  18. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "The 1090/1095 is definitely an option. How about moving the 1075 to the center/surrounds and getting a 1090 for the 802s? There are still better options out there, I'm sure, but wouldn't it sound a little strange having different amp brands powering the speakers...?"
    Yes, if you were to use different amplifiers all the way around...it would sound messy. The 1090/1095 mains/surrounds and center would probably blend very well.
    "So would a Classe CAV-180 do the job or should I look into one of the CA models? I'm not very familiar with the Bryston and Krell models, which ones would you recommend?"
    I'm not familiar with Classe. Bryston I have researched a bit. They are a Canadian company and if you can find a B&M that will mail order you to the states, the discount can be pretty significant. As with Krell...I haven't even gotten started. I think the one that was hooked up to my 802s was like a KAV250, something or rather. It was an integrated amplifier...much smaller and lighter than my Rotel...
    Don't spend much time listening to my babble though...these other guys have MUCH more experience than me with this higher end shit. I am very much a rookie with these 802s and I'm still waiting for someone to knock on my door to tell me that someone made a mistake and I am not allowed to have these speakers[​IMG]
    Regardless...NOTHING sounds like the Nautilus speakers, IMO. The sound is so friggin' good...I bought the Steely Dan album "Two against Nature" yesterday. Also, I listened to the some Pink Floyd last evening...It is totally, night and day difference, musically than ANYTHING I've ever heard in my house. Truly amazing.
    There is always room to grow into amplifiers, I suppose. If the difference is that remarkable each time you add a high end component, all the better. I will get a chance to Enjoy my system everytime I make a change...kind of like adding the W/S HiDef television...you get a chance to watch every movie over again and re-enjoy it all[​IMG]
    I'm with you...I'm using a Denon 5800 as a pre/pro and amplifier to the center and surrounds. After the speakers are complete, the amplifier situation is under control...maybe, just maybe...I will become a seperates dude with a stand alone pre/pro...It's like a nightmare, no matter how long and fast you run, the road just gets longer!
    It is a good kind of nightmare though[​IMG]
    Jeremy
     
  19. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "I'm just saying that your amp is better than you think."
    Dennis,
    I agree with Ricky 118%[​IMG]
    Jer
     
  20. Dennis B

    Dennis B Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jeremy, Ricky,

    Yeah, I'm pretty convinced the next step is going for the speakers and maybe just add a 1090 or 1080 later.

    Now Ricky you're the first one to say the 802 and 803s are in the same league. People tend to say the 803s are "lost" between the ruling 802 and the excellent-but-affordable 804. When I auditioned the 803s vs the 804s I thought there was a very clear difference, not just in bass, but others seemed to disagree. What are your thoughts?
     

Share This Page