RIM introduces it's tablet.. the PlayBook (2 Viewers)

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by davesmith




But for how long will Android struggle on a tablet? Surely given 6 months Android will have been refined beyond the BlackBerry. I mean, BlackBerry are on an absolute collapse, surely?
I also concur with this general feeling that RIM haven't got either the home or work market on board with the Playbook. Finally, did everyone hear about the last couple of interviews given by the co CEOs? There was one walkout and one iffy performance involved. They are under lots of pressure.

I think there are a few misconceptions here. I'm sure they are under pressure as marketshare goes down. But marketshare isn't the same as profitability or units shipped. Last year RIM shipped 52M units. That's a 40% increase from the year before. They had $924 Million in profits. Only Apple had a better profit sheet on the phone end. LG, Sony and others got took to the cleaners in a competitive android market that is saturated.


Android will become dominant in the marketplace. That's a fact. RIM has no ability to produce units as quickly as all Android manufacturers combined. Neither does Apple. As the smart phone market expands, Android benefits. Only WP7 also has the development partners to really pull off huge volumes, but it's adoption rate isn't big enough to matter (yet).


But I've seen several of the Android tablets, played with several... and I think the idea that "how long will they struggle with a tablet" I think they are going to struggle for a while. Realistically, they are still struggling with a phone. Android phones -are- cool. But they aren't a universal platform that really clicks on every level, and you have wildly different hardware out there and means to get at it.

Android is running the risk of the Windows95 problem. Huge, widespread adoption. An open "do what you will" marketplace. End results: if you ARE the perceived leader in a field, you'll attract everything from subpar quality offerings to other problems.


Google Virus problems (on tablets and phones) http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/03/google-removing-virus-infected-android-apps-from-phones-tablets-promises-better-secutiry.html

Or really shitty google devices, being pitched everywhere from Walmart to Walgreens to online from manufacturers you've never heard of.


Android is building a huge ecosphere it has to carry with it, and it has done it in short order. Developers will want fair compatibility, and with things like Samsung being Android 2.2/2.3, Xoom being 3.0, and all the cheap tablets being 2.2/2.3, I think the road ahead of Google is going to be harder then people think. It's kind of like Linux. I LOVE Mandriva AND Ubuntu. But the same packages on one aren't necessarily there for another. Someone else prefers redhat. A 3rd person likes PCLinuxOS. Universal compatibility becomes a bitch.

RIM has the growth problem; they cannot grow to scale to Apple. They can't Grow to scale to match up with dozens of android developers. But like Apple (and an attempt by MS) they will be offering a single development platform with a standardized hardware setup, and updates will be universal and can be managed. You'll know what's coming and who has it.


I think Google will grab the most marketshare of anyone. And I think they are going to end up with the product with the most fragmentation, grousing and no steady experience.

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by mattCR

[...]but I can see with some minor software fixes, this thing really makes it almost impossible for me to consider a Xoom/etc. for any of the Android tablets.

Matt,

I can only guess that's what RIM wants to hear: Blackberry users find the Playbook's integration more appealing over an Android tablet.


My perspective, as a home user, is the PB, as launched, is laughably worse than even the Xoom. At least the Xoom gives me email and calendar. The Playbook is missing the basics. But, if the PB software is revised quickly, as promised, it's value to a broader audience could change.


But they've already done themselves significant damage by releasing for review the device missing the basics and plagued by crashy browser. I'm sure RIM feels the pressure...but since they're a year late to the tablet competition, what's another month to get it right and its launch met with glowing reviews about its broad suite of support software and great stability?


RIM stumbled out of the gate. But there's time to recover.

 

[mattCR]

The crashy browser bit is the part I am still up in the air on.. I'm not sure where these people are going to crash their browser. So far, I've had far more experience making a Xoom browser completely bomb or a iPad bomb on a website then I have the PB browser. I'm sure there are sites that would make it bomb, but so far I haven't had that experience. So, I can't comment on that. I wll say, I have been VERY dissapointed with many of the reviews, which either had very short time or they just didn't pay attention.


* Engadget insisting that the power button was needed to open the screen after hibernate when it clearly says a swipe across the bottom does that through a gesture.

* MSNBC's now retracted comment over directing apps to a second display (wrong)

* Engadget having a talking about browser crashes, but it would help if they could tell us what sites so I could figure that out.. it's kind of worthless to just say "it crashes" vs. someone saying "I couldn't load ESPN360" or whatever




I would agree that the general work on the "basics" for people who don't have a blackberry is critical. I can see there are already 3rd party calendars and other apps available that accomplish that for the playbook, but as far as firstparty, baked in, you're right.


My comment regarding the Xoom is a simple one. The Xoom is a slower, more expensive, more trouble prone unit. I would take the GalaxyTab over the Xoom.

I think there is a lot of expectation games coming on. I can understand why a non-blackberry user would say "missing the criticals" Then again, I can't say I have ever setup email on my wife's ipad because as a priority it's probably near the bottom. (as compared to me, where it's life or death


I think the pressure is on them to ship. How long until first party mail app appears? That will be the question. If it happens very quickly, then I think the impact is nothing. Early buyers on this will be people who are in a BES environment, and they don't have to worry about it thanks to Bridge. If it gains any traction from them, then to move forward, you're right, it needs it.


Having played with all the tablets, as far as form/function/playout, I'd tend to go:


Apple (iPad/iPad2)

Playbook (which is a big drop back UNLESS you are a corporate client right now)


Then a MONUMENTAL step down to any of the android tablets.


I think if you've sat and played with an Ipad/Ipad2 or a PB, the way the base interface, design and function of a Android 2.2/2.3/3.0 tablet feels.. crap. Apple has it down better then anyone, but Android tablets "feel" cheap. No matter what the pricepoint, they just have the feel of "cheap" even when they aren't.


Just an opinion


Android will end up dominating this market because of production abilities. But having a wildly hodge podge implementation of it's core is going to be a serious PITA.

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by mattCR



I think the pressure is on them to ship. How long until first party mail app appears? That will be the question. If it happens very quickly, then I think the impact is nothing. Early buyers on this will be people who are in a BES environment, and they don't have to worry about it thanks to Bridge. If it gains any traction from them, then to move forward, you're right, it needs it.

And that's part of their bad launch: doing nothing for a year and then rushing to pre-mature release based on misguided pressures.


That is: no one's making headway with tablets against the iPad.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/04/15/lower_than_expected_xoom_sales_prompt_apple_ipad_competitors_to_delay_tablets.html


RIM mis-judged the urgency of their situation and they've consequently suffered in the reviews.

 

[Sam Posten]

NelsonMuntzHAHA

http://slate.com/id/2291255

http://m.wired.com/reviews/2011/04/blackberry-playbook/all/1

/NelsonMuntzHAHA

 

[mattCR]

The slate article, however, is kind of typical of the problem with the media. Farhad goes on a rant.. and yet, he has never used one. Not at all. This would be like me calling any device I haven't used garbage, despite the fact that I have never used one.


Wired has to be using much older software then I am playing with, because while I don't play farmville, all of my flash based games on Facebook work just fine, and Flash works fine @ Hulu / etc..

 

[DaveF]

I don't read Farhad at Slate. He seems at lesser writer and thinker on tech matters. As implied by your comments, Matt, Farhood seems to not actually have interest in tech, and seems unable to get or afford what he's supposed to be writing about.

 

[mattCR]

I think there are lots of products I have tried and bashed, and some I've tried and praised. But I generally avoid bashing things I haven't tried at all.. I will make comments, but a direct "review" of sorts is kind of over the limit. They put out another round of updates on the playbook today. And, to be honest, over the last week this product has really smoothed out. Some features that didn't even really exist about 5 days ago now seem pretty functional. It moves a bit more fluid. And I've either discovered a few things I couldn't make it do before or they've added them.


My honest appraisal: the hardware here is really, pretty awesome. Some of the options are pretty fantastic. If this had about an extra 2 weeks to cook, at the rate they keep throwing out updates, a whole lot of minor quirks could be sorted out. I have no idea how that's going to impact things.

As I've said repeatedly, I don't think this is a consumer product to challenge the ipad. (then again, I don't think the Xoom is either). But the data encryption, remote network storage attachment, and network wipe type as well as other functions turn this into a damn slick corporate device.

But all that having been said, it needs about another 2 weeks of cooking. The early adopters will really be early adopters who want to integrate this with BES, where it performs best.

 

[DaveF]

Ya gotta love the carriers... http://feeds.loopinsight.com/~r/loopinsight/KqJb/~3/jJZ9WrE1PiI/ Word is AT&T has blocked the "bridge", preventing the BB to PB email/calendar/web sharing. Violation of tethering contract, they say.

 

[Hanson]

I remember when they announced that the bridge would support data tethering, the big question was whether the carriers would allow this functionality. I don't think AT&T will be the last carrier to block it if you don't have a tethering plan.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Originally Posted by DaveF

Ya gotta love the carriers...
http://feeds.loopinsight.com/~r/loopinsight/KqJb/~3/jJZ9WrE1PiI/

Word is AT&T has blocked the "bridge", preventing the BB to PB email/calendar/web sharing. Violation of tethering contract, they say.

ROTFLMAO -- I always suspect the Playbook would be D.O.A., but this level of not being prepared for the obvious I didn't expect even from RIM. Guess I was naive.

 

[Ted Todorov]

The word is "would", obviously... where the heck is the "Edit post" button?

 

[Hanson]

The edit button icon looks like a stubby pencil now. It's next to the flag button. I'd have to dig it up, but as I recall, RIM was pretty confident that you could wireless tether off of a Blackberry without having a tethering plan. The reporters were a bit incredulous, but RIM assured them it would be cool. This was from the press conference when they announced the Playbook.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo

The edit button icon looks like a stubby pencil now. It's next to the flag button. I'd have to dig it up, but as I recall, RIM was pretty confident that you could wireless tether off of a Blackberry without having a tethering plan. The reporters were a bit incredulous, but RIM assured them it would be cool. This was from the press conference when they announced the Playbook.

Thanks - I was seeing the pencil as a paper clip and thinking attachments button...

Back on topic, yeah, RIM is a badly managed company. To have that crucial tethering feature there rest on nothing more than hope of carrier acceptance is just insane.

 

[Hanson]

If you look at the article, it makes RIM look even worse:

BlackBerry App World has a note on launch day that the software isn’t supported on AT&T, so did RIM know and just not tell its customers?

Magic 8 Ball says... Signs point to yes.

 

[DaveF]

(I think "edit" was changed to the pencil icon recently. One day I suddenly couldn't find edit function. I was confused for about a week )

 

[Hanson]

It is unfortunate that the pencil icon looks so much like a paper clip. I only realized it was a pencil because it was the edit button and not the other way around.


Even though the Playbook is getting a "rushed out the door" reputation in the reviews, what with the flurry of last minute patches, RIM reportedly wanted to release the Playbook in March but was thwarted by a screen shortage:


http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/07/apple-responsible-for-blackberry-playbook-delays-report-claims/


They're almost lucky that Apple forced them to spend another month tweaking the software. But if they were really, lucky, Apple would have delayed them three months. Or even four.

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo


They're almost lucky that Apple forced them to spend another month tweaking the software. But if they were really, lucky, Apple would have delayed them three months. Or even four.

How much do reviews matter? (an age-old question) If a lot, then the bad start dooms the Playbook. If not at all, then these updates will be its salvation.

 

[Sam Posten]

Heck of a job:

http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobile-technology/rim-blackberry-playbook-unfinished-unusable-534

 

[DaveF]

Five page link-bait articles: unfinished, unreadable