Revisit: Tempest vs. 1503 in sonosub aplications

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by jeff lam, Jan 14, 2002.

  1. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    Since my previous thread dissapeared somehow I am reposting this topic for help. After talking with Dan from Adire and Pat from Blueprint, the decision will be tough. The tempest looks best for my application however it will need a much larger enclosure than the 1503 from what I gather. 10ft^3 for the tempest compared to 5ft^3 for the 1503. If this is the case, I will have to favor the 1503 due to size restrictions. I need help with some designs. I'm currently thinking 16 or 18" sonotube no higher than 5 ft total including legs, baseplate, and endcaps. Tuned to 16-18Hz, 6" port, with the flattest response possible. I will sacrifice output for a flatter response. I still want it low and loud though, which I'm sure any design will achieve. Any suggestions and help from you pro's(Jack, Brian, Dustin, Pat, and others) out there will be appreciated.
    THANKS!
     
  2. PeteG

    PeteG Agent

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    Jeff, I don’t know about the Tempest but the Blue Print 1503 needs at least a 20”

    tube. And I'm sure you'll be under 5ft.
     
  3. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    We finished building Pete's 1503 tube sub over the W/E. Haven't dialed it in his room yet.

    Final tube size was 20" dia, 38" interior height = 195L. Measured tuning at 18.4Hz with a 29.5" long, 5.75" ID dia port with dual AeroPort 6" flares.

    I haven't heard it yet. We ran out of time for testing so Pete took it straight home. My guess from what he says is that it's MORE than enough sub for his room (future proof he says). We'll be getting some plots as time allows.

    I'm finishing up the 'test-tube' for the dual 1503's in a small sealed enclosure ala the Krell MRS sized enclosure. This will be operational before the W/E. I don't have a new Bassis yet so performance may not be as tight as desired
     
  4. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    According to the sites. A Tempest is 15 3/16" in diameter and a BP1503 is 15 10/16 of an inch. I mounted a Tempest into a 18" sonotube and had enough room left over for 1.5" wide legs.

    So, I know the Tempest can be done. I think the BP1503 could be done too. The space for the legs would be tight, but possible.

    However, I haven't seen a 1503 so feel free to reiterate an override of my comments Pete.
     
  5. A 1503 will most definately fit in an 18" sonotube.

    I know because I have two of them in one. they are on opposite ends with 45L each. EQed and moderately powered. 600watts now, but that will change when I can afford the Crown K1/K2
     
  6. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Jeff,

    My biggest question is do you (or will you) have enought power for a 1503? If I remember correctly, someone stated that one should have a minimum of 500 watts if you're putting one of these in a ported enclosure. Maybe that was Thomas talking about the HE15, but I'd think it would apply to the 1503 as well.

    Brian
     
  7. More important than the amp, is the need of a parametric EQ. The inducance hump is rather large.

    As for power, 500watts in a 150L tuned to 18hz will give you a little bit above 110db anechaic (sp?) free space. X-max wise, the sub in this system will be able to handle >1500watts and before exceeding LINEAR xmax from 20hz on up.
     
  8. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Brian
    Basically 500 watts gets you into the ballgame. 750+ makes you a player...
    As Anthony correctly points out 1Kwatt+ works too, especially if you want to remind people a block or so away of your existance [​IMG]
     
  9. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    Brian,

    Very True! I don't have an amp yet, that may cause problems. If I'll need at least 500W, how much will that run me to get by for now? Maybe I'm better off going with a Tempest. But I can't have a 10ft^3 enclosure in my room, it's too big. What are my options? Maybe a 15" DVC? How much volume do they need? Maybe I should just stick to my original plan and get a shiva. Except all of you talked me into getting the Tempest instead. I'm sure eventually I can get a 1000W amp. BTW, what's the impedance of the 1503? Does it have DVC's? Can the 1503 design and amp be done for around $500-600? What about the EQ? Is it needed?

    How much is the BFD street price?
     
  10. BFD=$129

    DCM600=$319 (600watts at 4ohms bridged)

    BPD1503=$219

    This puts you at $667 before any shipping or taxes.

    The 1503 route isn't for the budget minded, but you can end up with one hell of a subwoofer.

    As for the 1503, it is a SVC @ 4ohms.

    Since you are sorta space limited, how about you go with the Shiva either in a sonotube or a PR-box.

    You will not have nearly the potential output, but you will have plently for most of your needs. If one shiva isn't enough, you could always get a second one for the same box volume as a tempest.
     
  11. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    You're right. I guess the 1503 will have to wait till I can really put it to good use.
    Now I calculated the volume I can use for the tempest and the MAX I can come up with is 7.36ft^3(internal volume not including driver and port displacement). Would this be enough for a solid design or should I just use a shiva and not worry about the space?

    BTW, why does everyone use liters around here? I know Canadians use liters and meters but when we use inches for length when we post our messages, why don't we just use ft^3. Now I need the formula to convert ft^3 to liters. Can anyone help me out? I don't have any conversion tables handy right now.
     
  12. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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  13. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Jeff,

    These are the two conversions I use the most. To convert ft^3 to liters, multiply by 28.3. In other words 1ft^3 is 28.3 Liters. And 1" is equal to 2.54cm. This comes in handy for deciding port lengths.

    I've had to use both of these whenever I use Unibox.

    Brian
     
  14. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Jeff

    Given the minimal cost difference between the Shiva and a Tempest, go bigger...

    Checkout the Tempest 'apps' from the Adire site. Some of these designs are fairly small.
     
  15. PeteG

    PeteG Agent

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    Dustin- No overide here, sounds like the 1503 can be put into a 18" tube glad to hear,

    but when I looked at a 20" tube with the 1503 in it, their

    was very

    little room left. I couldn't imagine the tube being any smaller with good size legs on it and have enough strength

    for the driver. -my bad
     
  16. If I can only get a digital camara, I will show you what I did. It is on the tight end, but it can be done. mind you that my top/bottom end caps (2" thick) over hang the sonotube by 1/4". The sono is wrapped in 1/4 foam and (when ever I get off my @$$ to do it), will sock it.
     
  17. PeteG

    PeteG Agent

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    Anthony- Hope we see some pics soon. Here's
    a couple pics of the finish sub Thomas & I put
    together, which everyone is right about having a
    parametric EQ with this driver.
    Sub-1
    Sub-2
     
  18. TedO

    TedO Stunt Coordinator

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    PeteG,

    I am starting a SonoSub project similar to yours. ThomasW recommended a Blueprint 1503 driver in a 192L enclosure with a 29.5" long 6" port. Is this similar to the one you built?

    What are you driving your sub with? How does it sound, SPL and quality wise?

    Thanks for the help.

    TedO

    P.S. Looks GREAT!
     
  19. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Ted
    Pete's tube is the tube I'm talking about. We built it in my shop. The SQ is VERY good. Pete's using a Crest LT-1000 and it's efficient enough that he's never seen the output LEDs lightup
    BTW the interior height of the 20" dia tube is 38". Allow an additional 3" in height for 2-1.5" thick MDF endcaps, so the total length of just the sonotube itself is 41". There are 4" spacers between the bottom endcap and the 1.5" thick bottom plate
    [​IMG]
    Thomas
     
  20. TedO

    TedO Stunt Coordinator

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    I must say that looks like a winner.

    Eveything is falling into place, I have found a masonary supply store where I can buy the 20" Sono tube in 6' length for $30, I have sold my Samson (the check is in the mail), the local music dealer has the Crown CE-1000 or the QSC RMX1450 for $389, he is checking on a price for a Crest LT-1000 (my first choice), I'll know tonight. Would it be any advantage to go with a QSC RMX2450 or would that be overkill?

    Waiting for Blueprint's web sight to come back up to order the driver (1503). I ordered the Speakon connector and speaker terminals from parts express. My SVS is up for sale but only a few low ball offer so far.

    The only thing left to find is the 6" flared ports. I can't find anyone that has any. The area of (3) 4" diameters is slightly more than one one 6". Does this mean I can use (3) 4" ports instead of (1) 6" port?
     

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