Return of the Joker: Uncut AND Letterboxed (1 Viewer)

[John Berggren]

The Justice League DVD is full-frame. AFAIK, Sub-Zero is too, though the Laserdisc was letterboxed to 1.66:1...

Blah. No sale then.

Crazy that they'd release JL without an anamorphic widescreen inclusion as it's a short DVD and it's been shown on Broadcast Television (Cartoon Network no less!) in Widescreen!

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Blah. No sale then.

Would you buy Justice League if it were non-anamorphic letterboxed?

 

[Robert George]

I just looked at Justice League. No mistake on the package for that one. "Standard" version. Fullscreen. Excellent quality, however.

One other thing on the Batman Beyond: RotJ disc. For those using progressive scan DVD players, the progressive flags on this encoding are totally screwed. With the RP91, transfer mode "auto 3" seems to work the best. All in all, this has the appearance of a total rush job from Warner. Just a "throw out" for the fans that have been bugging them for an uncut version.

 

[John Berggren]

Would you buy Justice League if it were non-anamorphic letterboxed?

No. I don't buy non-anamorphic anymore. But I guess I'd be happier to know they were at least trying. I'm disturbed that they couldn't manage to release it as such.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

American animation has not even come close to the level of Japanese animation at any level, save perhaps the use of computer generated images

All I can say is: :rolleyes

 

[Robert George]

Oh, c'mon. You can say more than that, Colin.

Perhaps you could elucidate your obviously contrary viewpoint. Explain how I am wrong rather than posting a, um, whatever you call that.

 

[TonyD]

Yea colin i'd be interested to see your thiughts also. do you have any examples that would back up your opinion. not that i would disagree with you i may agree completely but give us some words.!!

 

[Michael St. Clair]

As far as the whole Japanese versus western animation, that is a whole can of worms not worth going into.

As a counterpoint to Robert, there's a kid here (named Terrell I think) who constantly makes the other argument, that anime can't touch Disney (for 'quality' of animation).

I can (sort of) see his whole point of view as well. Disney theatrical animation is typically shot on twos (12fps), and anime is still typically shot on threes (8fps). When Mononoke came out, some ado was made about its frame count, which was the highest of any theatrical anime in history. Yet it fell short on frame count of dozens of Disney theatrical films.

There is a fluidity to (some) western animation, typified by Disney, that is not typical to anime, at least not for the duration of an entire film. Some (short) parts of Akira were shot on ones, and so on.

Some people equate fluidity to the 'quality' of the animation. I disagree, it is only one factor. Quality of rendering, quality of composition, realism of characters and motion, and so on should all be considered factors as well.

Even films like 'Ghost in the Shell', with lots of still shots, some rotoscoping, and 'Clutch Cargo' type talking-mouth scenes still impress me in many ways.

And of course, there's lots of crap produced on both sides.

The argument isn't worth having. To a large degree it is apples and oranges. There is great animation produced in each culture that is just plain 'different'. Direct qualitative comparisons are pointless.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

The Batman animated features are certainly not up to the animation style conveyed by the best of the Japanese animated features, but they don't need to be.

They do have a certain "weight" to them that somewhat places them above typical Saturday morning fare, though.

I enjoy these movies simply due to the fact that they represent a fantastic blend between the Bob Kane Batman, the Frank Miller Batman, and the Tim Burton Batman. As long as the animation is good enough to move the story along and portray the characters in a fashion reminiscent of those artists, then I'm satisfied.

It's certainly not Princess Mononoke in the area of animation, just as that feature cannot compare to Disney's Tarzan in that regard, but it's good enough to convey the story.

IMO, In this particular instance, that's all that's needed.

 

[Robert George]

Michael & Joseph,

That's what I'm trying to get at. Opinions backed up with explanation.

To expand on my earlier comment, I refer more to cultural acceptance and the status of the animation artform within both the consumer marketplace and the filmmaking establishment.

Of course I'm not dense enough to ever try to claim Disney does not set the standard for technical achievement. Obviously, in the area of purely technical artistry, there is Disney then there is everyone else. But we are talking about maybe one major feature a year from Disney. Sometimes less than that. Pixar is doing great things, but I consider pure CGI to be a different thing. Even so, Pixar's output is less than Disney's. Fox almost got it "right" with Titan A.E., but look what happened with that (it is considered a huge financial failure and it is said that project was at least partially responsible for costing Bill Mechanic (then a top exec at Fox) and others their jobs). But even the best technical animation can't make up for stories that are so clearly aimed at children. And throwing in a few jokes that only the grownups "get" is not the same as making a movie with an adult theme.

The Japanese, on the other hand, routinely turn out elaborately conceived, lushly drawn, adult themed amimated programs (film and TV). There simply is no American equivalent of programs such as Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis, and Macross, just to name a few of the things I know of (and that ain't much). I just happen to have seen Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust this weekend. Could you see an American studio producing a film like this? I can't.

The American studios claim there is not sufficient market for adult animation. I wonder who is buying all that Japanese anime over here?

 

[Mark Evans]

The American studios claim there is not sufficient market for adult animation. I wonder who is buying all that Japanese anime over here?

I know I am . However Robert, this is also an example of apples and oranges. You and I and everybody who enjoys anime knows it isn't sex and violence only, but nobody else does. Trust me on this. I hear the phrase 'cartoon porn' more often than should be necessary.
But American animation is up against two important factors: past experience and ignorant parents. No adult animation has succeeded over here with any degree of mainstream acceptance. Period. And parents who are too stupid and blase to care what their child watches blindly march them into theaters, and kick up enormous fuss when they see something objectionable.
I saw Perfect Blue when it came through theaters here, and it killed me to walk people stand up and walk out of the film. (Mind you, it was dubbed, so that may have had something to do with it. ) People have such a poor view of animation as kid's films that they don't go see the adult ones. The failure of Atlantis at the box office (by typical Disney standards), no matter what issues with story may exist, was not helped by its more mature tone.
I liked the Batman Beyond movie quite a lot when I managed to see it unedited a while back. No, it does not have the mature theme of many anime series, but even something as excellent as Cowboy Bebop has its share of goofy moments (Radical Edward, say).
Batman Beyond, on tv, is hamstrung by the fact that it is obviously a much dumbed-down version of the previous animated series in order to appeal to the children's market. You can tell that Dini & Timm wanted to make something edgier, but were unable to do so. What would they have done without these restraints? I think something of the quality of Batman Beyond: ROTJ is the answer to that question.
This is, at its core, a popcorn action movie, unapologetically I'd say. But it has a very mature element underlying it, especially with some of the very brutal scenes later in the film as the mystery gets revealed. This movie's got a lot of edge to it, and the story it tells, to me, is very solidly done. Would it be as good without the depiction of violence? No. Why? Because it drives home a number of points about this movie, and it really establishes the depths of insanity the Joker has plunged to. I've never found the Joker to be a really terrifying villain, but they managed to do it with this film.
Clearly you're not as impressed with it, Robert, and to each his own. I really enjoy the movie, and I certainly give it a lot of credit for even trying something as gutsy as this with what has been a very slight show up to this point. And now you know why .

 

[David Lambert]

Upset that JL and Subzero turn out to be fullframe after all... :frowning:
Sigh.

 

[John Berggren]

David,
You weren't the only one. This would have been a much more expensive week for me if Warner produced their discs with me in mind. As it stands, the only Batman release I'm likely to buy will be TAS. I may supplement Metropolis for the lack of the others.

 

[ChristopherDM]

Dont forget Transformers!!!!!=]

 

[Robert George]

Clearly you're not as impressed with it, Robert, and to each his own.

Well, actually, I am rather impressed with it (RotJ). What I really like is to see this film made with a higher level of technical animation. That would be killer. As for the story and voice acting, this may be among the best I have seen from an American studio. Certainly for this "class" of program, though I am by no means an authority on animation.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

As it stands, it looks like I'm picking up RotJ Uncut after all and the first Batman: TAS tommarrow. And the Episode II score CD if the copy protection rumors are false.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

As far as the whole Japanese versus western animation, that is a whole can of worms not worth going into.

My thoughts exactly. That's why I let my smilie do the talking. I WILL say that in the departments of gratuitous violence and boobie shots, the Japanese beat the pants off the Americans...

 

[JonZ]

Went to Media Play to pick this up at lunch, I saw "Standard version: formated to fit your screen" on the back and got off line to look for a Widescreen version,until I remembered the box was incorrectly labeled. :b :b

 

[TonyD]

i just got my new version and cant wait to watch it in a veiwing area bigger then a 2x3 inch space.
i am also debating on whether i should use the receipt to return my still sealed copy of the edited version. what is the point of keeping it now?
can anyone talk me into keepnig the edited version too?

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I wouldn't keep the old one.

Some may question the ethics of returning it on your new receipt. Not me, though.