Return of the Joker: Uncut AND Letterboxed (1 Viewer)

[Robert George]

Robert, so what it if is not Akira?? Not everything is a Citizen Kane.

Right. The point is, American animation has not even come close to the level of Japanese animation at any level, save perhaps the use of computer generated images. Despite the PG-13 rating, this program is a crudely animated piece of "Saturday morning" quality. My aside that it is a pretty decent story "for a cartoon" stands. That isn't a "stereotype" as was the accusation. It is an honest acknowledgement, in my opinion, of the style and quality of animation.

Perhaps someday American animation studios will reach the level of sophistication of the Japanese. Then we will see just how far animation can really go.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Not to beat a dead horse too much longer, but if they have to zoom out to 4x3 for the credits, doesn't that say something?

(Currently having an internal conflict... I want this bad, but I also want, well, y'all have read my rants thus far.)

 

[Adam Tyner]

Adam: Maybe you can give it a rental on Tuesday and reply with your thoughts after you've had an opportunity to see the film and make an informed opinion.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Well, I've watched it with my own mattes and ran into a few questions I'd like those who have early copies to anwser. Overall, defineately not as awkward as Justice League is matted. However, there were some awkward spots. I've pictures below to show my point:
Link RemovedLink RemovedHere we have the unmatted image. The framing is fairly decent.Here, I've matted the same image to 1.78:1 aspect ratio. The framing is somewhat awkward... It seems like he's walking on the black bar.To the right, we have an alternate matted version in which the framing has been corrected so that the action is centered in the frame. It looks much better than 1-2, perhaps even superior to the original.Link RemovedMy question is, if you can bring up this shot, is the framing as is, or has it been altered so that things look better?

 

[Robert George]

...if they have to zoom out to 4x3 for the credits, doesn't that say something?

I'm not sure this is the case. I recall thinking when I first read the post stating the credits are no letterboxed that I did no recall this being correct, but I didn't have the time just then to put the disc in and look.
Here are a couple of caps from the opening of the movie...

The rest of the credits are on a black background, the same color as the letterbox bars, which may explain why one might think it was fullscreen at that point. It appears to me the transfer is letterboxed from beginning to end.
Adam:
Give me a time reference for that shot and I'll do a screen cap and post it.

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

Despite the PG-13 rating, this program is a crudely animated piece of "Saturday morning" quality. My aside that it is a pretty decent story "for a cartoon" stands.

Oh, so it's production quality, not writing, voice acting, originality, premise, story line, or anything else.

What I guess I'm saying is, what does the story have to do with the animation style? Would Clerks be any better with a fifty million dollar budget?

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

OK, nevermind then about the main titles then. The time reference is ~ 18 minutes, 5 seconds. If they do extract the frame differently that just take the center 16x9 frame, then I will STILL pick this up in a heartbeat.
So if you can cap that, Obi, it'd be much appreciated. (00h:18m:05s)
EDIT: The bootleg lacks the opening credits, so that may be somewhat off. Sorry bout that.

 

[Daniel J]

Call me a cynical phillistine unable to appreciate the artistic merits of cinema, but when A movie looks better to me in full frame, I watch it in full frame, cinematographer be damned!
This applies to both animation and film, of course, but animation in particular. Overall, I'm fine weatching films in letterbox format, but if I could choose between letterbox and open matte, my viewing enjoyment quotient would be ++
Now, of course, pan and scan is another matter entirely.
For BB:RotJ, I'll take the full frame version. I watch on both a TV and a 13' front projection system ( ); so I'd rather have the ability to see more picture than be forced to watch a "better" framing.
It's all about choice, people.

 

[David Lambert]

OK, nevermind then about the main titles then

Count me in on that sentiment, too. After seeing Obi's screen shot, I went back and checked it out.
Bottom line, the opening credits ARE letterboxed; it's just the closing credits that are not.
I may "stick to my guns", but I'm certainly not immune to boneheaded mistakes. I'm not sure what drug I was on at the time, but my apologies.
However, I DID verify that the closing credits are open matte, so no mistake there. :p)

 

[Robert George]

Here ya go...

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Thanks alot Tighter than I'd hoped, but I may still pick this up, just for the extra resolution.
Thanks again,
Adam

 

[Robert George]

Adam:

I've watched a little over half of the film and the framing looks well balanced to me. My eye will usually pick up this sort of thing.

 

[MikeM]

Robert, thanks for the vidcaps.

Since I'm used to watching Batman Beyond on cable, via a TiVo, I've rarely seen it looking so clear as it does in that vidcap you psoted above.

Although this isn't enhanced, I'm really exited now about this release. Thanks.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Mike: I don't think Batman Beyond has EVER been as clear as that cap. I have the first DVD, of the first 6 episodes (minus one somewhere in the middle.) The design of RotJ is was a bit sleeker than the show to begin with, and maybe it was created for higher resolutions than the TV show.
And Obi, I'll trust your professional opinion. Thanks again, all.

 

[TheoGB]

Dave:

I don't zoom the letterbox stuff.

from post 20.
Err, sorry, I was away at the weekend so I'm only just catching up on some stuff, hence the trawl back.
Did you mean this? Do you watch non-anamorphic stuff in 4:3 or am I just going mad?
When did you get the new telly, btw? I remember when your sig had a shot of your son watching Superman on a big 4:3...
And as for matting. I know that I watch my Shining DVD on 16:9 zoom. Kubrick might have preferred 4:3 but he didn't let anything slip out of the 16:9 area.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

This may be a moot point (I came late to this thread; sorry), but I thought I read somewhere around the time of the original release that ROTJ was animated at 1.66:1, and that that the video and DVD were panned-and-scanned.

I'm probably wrong, but has anyone compared the actual new release with the old one. Just curious.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Bryan,
Read the whole thread a little more carefully.
This is from the original release:
Link Removed
This is from the new DVD:

The original is not pan and scan.
Oh, and my original (pilot) Batman Beyond DVD is as 'clear' as Robert's 360x270 jpeg...thankfully.

 

[John Berggren]

I don't understand why they wouldn't enhance this if they were going to go 1.85:1.

I wonder what the status of Justice League is....

 

[Adam Tyner]

The Justice League DVD is full-frame. AFAIK, Sub-Zero is too, though the Laserdisc was letterboxed to 1.66:1...

 

[Bryan Tuck]

Bryan,

Read the whole thread a little more carefully.

...

The original is not pan and scan.

My apologies; I thought that Adam had said he put his own mattes on the original version. Sorry about that.