Retro gaming (1 Viewer)

[Morgan Jolley]

I've read multiple articles online from people who are very technical and they all agree that the components used to make the NES and SNES Classic are not powerful enough to emulate an N64. This isn't really a debatable point.

Nintendo registered trademarks for both an N64 and GameBoy Classic, which was probably more pre-emptive than indicative of anything specific. The original intent of the NES/SNES Classics, putting games on mobile phones, and announcing the theme park in Universal Studios Japan was all to try and promote Nintendo as a brand in order to push Switch sales. Now that the Switch is doing really well and about to get retro titles this fall, I don't know if they want to dilute the market and release more retro stuff. I wasn't talking about the idea that people would buy an N64 Classic instead of subscribing to their $20/year Switch online service, but rather that they would want people who don't own a Switch to go buy one and pay the $20/year fee rather than just sell them an N64 Classic. There's a good argument to be made that they can target current gamers with the Switch and lapsed/retro gamers with the Classics, but Nintendo doesn't always follow the logic of good arguments in obvious ways.

If there is a Classic console coming this fall, I wouldn't be surprised that it hasn't been announced yet. But I also doubt it would be an N64.

 

[LeoA]

I've read multiple articles online from people who are very technical and they all agree that the components used to make the NES and SNES Classic are not powerful enough to emulate an N64. This isn't really a debatable point.

Morgan, this hardware is already unofficially emulating Nintendo 64 games and has been for a while. Quite a few games like Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time run well.

And it's all from hobbyist developers coding in their spare time with no technical documentation on the hardware or the other resources that Nintendo's own programmers would have access to. So I don't know what you've read, but it's hogwash.

So yeah...

 

[CraigF]

The hardware used for the NES/SNES Classics is quite "under-utilized" for its capability. In one of the "retro" threads, I mentioned I bought a "chip platform" that has 16GB flash, 2GB RAM, 4K/60, 5/2.4 wifi, ethernet, BT, USB3.0, etc. etc., has a multi-GHz processor with another for graphics. For CA$10 (~US$7) including shipping, single quantity. So imagine what Nintendo could get them for wholesale, not that they need anything with all these frills.

Now we know it takes about 5-10X the processing power of the original device to decently emulate it (depends on architecture of both processing devices). For gaming purposes, we better go on the high side, and in fact maybe a little higher to compensate for the fidgety and usually problematical aspects of matching the controller interface of the original. This is the part that one of the guys somebody posted a video of did a good job on by using a "programmable hardware" chip, as opposed to just a programmable processor, plus lots of reverse engineering/time (edit: his purpose was mostly to make it compatible with original cartridges). Obviously Nintendo could go that hardware route if necessary, and one would hope they have the original engineering designs still hanging around, if not even some of the people for guidance (engineers often don't mind engineering for "ever", they often hate having to go into management...).

So I'm going to go out on a fairly strong limb and say I doubt the basic hardware board for a N64 Classic would cost Nintendo more than $5. It's all the other stuff required to make a saleable product to Nintendo's usually high standards that's going to cost the $$.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

From what I've read, the compatibility for N64 games is really spotty on hacked NES/SNES Classics. Some (usually earlier releases and simpler games) run fine while others have glitches, eventual slowdowns, sudden crashes, or don't load at all. These are typical emulation issues but I've read that it's also an issue with having to run the processor harder than it is designed for, meaning it might fail as a mass-market device being used this way long-term. Perhaps what I read was incorrect (this is not a topic I'm that interested in, so I don't keep up with the developments).

Honestly, even if Nintendo has to buy newer hardware, they could definitely produce an N64 Classic for relatively cheap. If the NES Classic had 30 games and 1 controller for $60, the SNES Classic had 21 games and 2 controllers for $80, then I'd put the N64 Classic with 15-20 games and 1-2 controllers at $100. It will cost them half of that, or less, to manufacture, even if that is double what the NES or SNES Classic cost to make. But what games could they get for it, what size is the market at that price, and how would that impact the sales of the Switch?

 

[Clinton McClure]

The market is huge and people would buy them up in a second. I believe it would in no way impact Switch sales (cannibalizing Switch sales was the same argument used against both the NES and SNES Classics and both times the argument was proven wrong). I really hope Nintendo builds and releases one, however, I would not buy one. I didn't and still have no interest in the N64.

 

[Sam Posten]

I just grabbed one of these for 13 beans!
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tiny-Arcade-Space-Invaders/386343515

There's a whole series of em...

 

[Steve Y]

I have no interest in an N64 classic except as a novelty. After the supply anxiety of the past two years, I really don't want to spend more time scanning inventory listings in the middle of the night and hitting my head against "out of stock" shopping cart errors. Besides, I still have the original N64 console, and all the best games I already own on cartridge or purchased on the Wii/Wii U shop.

As people mentioned, the handful of N64 games they could fit onto the hardware would probably be non-licensed, too, which is understandable but kind of a bummer.

I'd like to see Game Boy Classic, although many of those games can be purchased in the 3DS eShop. The ideal version would have an HDMI output (for utilizing Super Game Boy borders on a television) and an LCD screen for playing it "authentically" in greenish monochrome or GBC versions.

People assume another is coming, but this is Nintendo. If we've already hit the end of the line for Nintendo's classic series, I wouldn't be totally surprised (or disappointed). Also, their online service for Switch is ramping up this year. It might be smarter to make N64 (and GameCube) games a part of that service instead of offloading them to a prized collectible.

 

[LeoA]

Sony is giving the plug and play market a try.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I think it's cool that Sony is making a PlayStation Classic, but...I have no clue as to how big the market for that is. I just don't get the sense that Sony or Microsoft have the kind of nostalgia appeal that Nintendo does when it comes to the mass market.

That said, there are some questions about the slot on the back of the PS Classic and now theorizing about whether that means you could add more games. That would be really neat, but...I'd rather just have a way of buying individual games on PSN.

And $100 is a bit...steep.

 

[Clinton McClure]

I’m in. I preordered one from Best Buy this morning. As more details come out and a full list of games is released, I can always cancel if it underwhelms.

 

[LeoA]

Looking forward to seeing the full game list.

I'm surprised to see Ridge Racer Type 4. A late release and one of the technical showcases for the PS1, it had full Dual Shock support. Great game, but control won't be as good with a digital d-pad here.

I would've thought the iconic launch game for the PS1 would've beat it out since that's what most people remember. But unless more than one Ridge Racer game is present, it's not going to be here.

 

[LeoA]

Analogue a few minutes ago announced their Mega SG system.

Like the Super NT (SNES), it's a high-end, high quality fpga replica of the Sega Genesis in high-definition and with zero lag (Minus what your display adds). Supports the Sega CD (They're working on the 32X) and plays original Sega Genesis cartridges.

They'll be coming out with a variety of cartridge adapters for Sega's 8 bit line, with the SMS adapter included out of the box. And hopefully it will quietly be jailbroken after release, enabling rom loading from the sd card slot.

 

[Bryan^H]

Analogue a few minutes ago announced their Mega SG system.

Like the Super NT (SNES), it's a high-end, high quality fpga replica of the Sega Genesis in high-definition and with zero lag (Minus what your display adds). Supports the Sega CD (They're working on the 32X) and plays original Sega Genesis cartridges.

They'll be coming out with a variety of cartridge adapters for Sega's 8 bit line, with the SMS adapter included out of the box. And hopefully it will quietly be jailbroken after release, enabling rom loading from the sd card slot.

Definitely getting this.
It is a shame that they charge the full amount upon pre-order. Otherwise I would order it now.

 

[Bryan^H]

I'm staying away from the Arcade1Up cabinets. At first I thought they looked really cool, and even considered getting one, but a 2 week old display in Wal-Mart the paint is almost 80% off around the joysticks, and buttons, the fire button is squeaky, and not registering all of the button presses, Also the Joystick feels like it is on its last leg. And while I like the fact that the screen is a vertical the LCD is not kind to old games-CRT is the only thing that looks proper especially without filtering tools on board the unit.

 

[Clinton McClure]

I'm staying away from the Arcade1Up cabinets. At first I thought they looked really cool, and even considered getting one, but a 2 week old display in Wal-Mart the paint is almost 80% off around the joysticks, and buttons, the fire button is squeaky, and not registering all of the button presses, Also the Joystick feels like it is on its last leg. And while I like the fact that the screen is a vertical the LCD is not kind to old games-CRT is the only thing that looks proper especially without filtering tools on board the unit.

To play devil’s advocate, the demo units at Walmart get abused like a rental car.

 

[Bryan^H]

To play devil’s advocate, the demo units at Walmart get abused like a rental car.

I took that into consideration. 2 weeks of wear and tear at a retail store would be like maybe a year and a half of normal usage in my home. Bottom line the components (joystick, and button) would still wear out as I have read they are some of the cheapest on the market. And the paint would wear off over time.

 

[LeoA]

They're addressing the control overlay issue since it's a widespread issue that amazingly apparently got by them during testing. I believe it's a clear plastic overlay, which they ideally want customers to request when aware of its existence before wear requires replacement of the controller panel itself.

As for the buttons and joystick, at least this accepts real arcade parts, so it's an easy and relatively cheap repair. $25 or so online will get it all replaced with real arcade components like Sanwa sticks and buttons. Very easy to do and no soldering is involved.

More concerning to me as a very casual observer to the huge thread at AtariAge about these, is the emulation flaws and the poor track-ball and spinner controls. One can easily and cheaply rectify joystick and button issues, but apparently not so with the non-joystick cabinets.

I'm more interested in this, if I were looking for one.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/28...e-home-arcade-full-size-machine/#entry4135641

In theory it all sounds good at least. We'll see if AtGames can deliver after developing a poor reputation with their range of Sega themed plug and plays. Safe bet is they won't get it right, but I'm crossing my fingers for a pleasant surprise (Although personally I'm not looking to buy one).

 

[Bryan^H]

im thinking of downgrading(size wise) to professional CRT monitors, although only 14", they have S-Video. My 3 like Philips 27", and HD Samsung(27" also) are pretty hefty, and would require separate stands because of the weight. No matter how I work it out, would be most likely too space prohibitive in my 15' x 15' game room. Would prefer 19" pro monitors, but the cost jumps hundreds of dollars after 14.
I grew up with a 13 inch color tv so gaming on that size would not bother me...especially if I spice up the gaming rig with a 5.1 surround.

Here is what I'm looking at:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/223196997456

 

[Bryan^H]

Ordered!


New Old Stock

 

[LeoA]

Anyone buy a Playstation Classic? I've been successfully scared away for now.

While what I've seen doesn't look like as horrible as it's made out to be (Maybe I'd feel different playing it in person rather than watching video), for $100 I expect higher quality.

Maybe if it ever gets the price slashed in 2019 or is successfully hacked to enable us to load a more capable PS1 emulator and replace the PAL ISO's with proper 60 hz NTSC versions, I'll reconsider. So far though it's all quiet on the homebrew front it appears, despite this now being in many people's hands.