Reddish tint in my white on warm setting, cool setting looks much better with whites?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by jeff lam, Feb 18, 2003.

  1. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    I was testing out my new progressive player a couple weeks ago on my sony HDTV direct view (32HV600) and noticed that my whites look like they have a reddish tint to them and it's a noticable difference when I switch from warm to cool temp and vice versa. If the warm setting is closest to D6500K, then why does the cool setting seem to look like it's more accurate (at least with my whites)? Could it be possible that on my particular set the cool setting is closer to D6500K?
     
  2. Ottis Fletcher

    Ottis Fletcher Stunt Coordinator

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    Like my last TV, my current TV has settings for warm, neutral, and cool. On my first set I kept the settings on cool, this was a long time ago, but as I grew wiser in the home entertainment field I changed it to warm. It took a few minutes to get use to but warm is the NTSC standard. If every thing looks too red on warm you might want to turn your hue away from the red side a little bit.
     
  3. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Warm setting on sony sets is usually within 500-700K of where it should be. This could be on the red side or the blue side or worse yet, the green side.

    Chances of it being closer to D6500K is still more likely than the cool setting. But you are correct, it could be 5800K on the red side too ...

    If you look at things that are too blue for a long time, even things that are neutral white may look reddish to you. YOu have to learn to get used to it.

    Regards
     
  4. Brent Hutto

    Brent Hutto Supporting Actor

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    We have a 36XBR800 and I spent a lot of time getting a Avia-calibrated picture that I liked, starting from the Warm/NTSC mode. I went as far as changing RYR and similar settings in the service mode but no farther. I was able to balance the Red, Green and Blue color bars to almost perfectly neutral, at least according to the filters included with Avia.

    The Avia gray scale patterns all had a brownish or purplish tint to me after doing that calibration. It could well be that my eyes were biased toward too-blue but I did try the only thing I could think of which was to go look at some of 35mm slides on our 6500K light table for a while and go back and check the grey patterns again. Still not quite gray.

    So I started the calibration over from scratch using the "Neutral" (or whatever it's called) setting on the Sony. Once I had everything balanced out again, the gray patterns looked pretty much gray to me. The very brightest (IRE 90, IRE 100) levels may have seem a bit actinic but it beat having the medium and low IRE levels look muddy.

    A side effect was that the picture was subjectively more pleasing and vibrant. I suspect I now have a somewhat blue-biased calibration that for all I know is driving the CRT quite hard (although it seems a pretty conservative setup on the Avia white-level setup pattern). It doesn't matter, though, it looks great!
     
  5. Guy Kuo

    Guy Kuo Supporting Actor

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    Sadly, the out of the box settings for "warm" although closer to D65 are almost always going to be not quite right. Once you have seen an instrument calibrated grayscale and decoding adjustment done by an professional, the out of box grayscales definitely look "whacked." A well done grayscale imparts an almost implicitly "clean" underpinning to the image. It's hard to describe but the effect is pretty dramatic. The image just begins to look right, instead of having odd characteristics which keep the picture from look natural despite all ones efforts. It is unfortunate that it is so hard for the average owner to attain a truely good grayscale.
     
  6. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    I've been using the warm setting ever since I got the set in November and haven't altered it other than for testing. It's still there and I always use it but I was just curious as to why the whites actually look white when set to cool and look white with reddish tint when set to warm. This is especially clear to me during the Montage of images on VE while they show the Amerrican flag. The white stripes have a red tint to them, when I set it to cool, the tint is gone and it looks white as it should. It's a clearly noticable difference.
     
  7. Brent Hutto

    Brent Hutto Supporting Actor

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    At the time I calibrated our set (almost six months ago), as I recall my speculation was that the "warm" setting was overshooting on the 5000K side and the "neutral" was probably somewhat the other direction. There seemed to be a non-linearity issue on my set, though. On the Avia screen that shows the different gray bars (10 IRE, 20 IRE, etc.) it was the ones from about 50 IRE and darker that had a purplish, muddy cast while the brightest ones looked fine. With the "neutral" setting the dark and medium grays looked gray but some blue crept into the 90 IRE and 100 IRE ones. Or maybe the non-linearity is in my eyes, perhaps influenced by the fact that I don't use bias lighting (well, at least not intentional bias lighting).

    As Guy Kuo implies, it's a choice of the lesser evil without specializing calibration equipment and techniques that I don't have. On our TV, the too-blue "neutral" setting seems to produce gray scale errors that are less noticable to my eyes.
     
  8. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Jeff,

    What kind of lighting environment do you use? This might be part of the issue as implied in Brent's post.

    _Man_
     
  9. MichaelFusick

    MichaelFusick Second Unit

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  10. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    My red push is fixed and cant get any lower as my RYR and RYB are at the max of 15.

    My lighting is very dim. I usually leave the kitchen light on while watching but in my viewing room it's very dark. It's dark enough that I can't see my speakers which have a black grill when my lighting is set this way.
     

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