Red push excessive on TV but OK on movies??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Gregg_Fritz, Oct 9, 2002.

  1. Gregg_Fritz

    Gregg_Fritz Extra

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    I have a samsung 42" widescreen HDTV. I'm running component video from my DVD player, and i'm running S-Video from my digital cable.

    My settings are perfect - PERFECT for movies.. my red push is maybe 10%. My tone is green biased with a 15% reduction to red for optimum looks. Color temp is set to normal (as recommended per Avia calibration softwaree) When we watch television the red push is upwards of 30%

    Anyone have any idea as to why i would be seeing such a huge difference??

    One other question...

    Watching the godfather (you know all the dark scenes) I was noticing movement in the black areas almost as if my black level was set improperly... recheck on avia and its set optimal. Is it just the fact the movie is old? I don't really see this problem in any other movie during a "dark" scene.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Brent Hutto

    Brent Hutto Supporting Actor

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    My situation is a bit different as my TV (36XBR800) is direct-view and it's a Sony rather than a Samsung but I think I'm familiar with the same general kind of problem. When I used the "Big 5" user settings to do an Avia calibration, I could get the picture from my DVD player (via component connection) to look very good. Red push was around 10% or so per Avia. Like you, I found that many faces via analog cable or satellite were very sunburned.

    I ended up going into the service menu to do a more comprehensive red push fix. After those changes, another Avia calibration resulted in very different settings for the "Big 5". Now the DVD picture quality is very, very good and regular TV pictures range from pretty good to occasionally a little too red.

    I also went back and recalibrated everything (including the service mode stuff) starting from the "Normal" color temp rather than the so-called (by Sony) "NTSC Standard" temp which was warmer. I did this because the gray scale Avia showed a pretty objectionable tint when viewed in a dark room on the "NTSC Standard" setting. I'm extremely happy with my DVD picture quality under this newest calibration.
     
  3. Brent Hutto

    Brent Hutto Supporting Actor

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    Oh, and regarding the dark scenes. I set my DVD player to "Darker" before doing the Avia calibration and there is definitely information in the shadows that wouldn't be visible on a non-DVD source or with the DVD using the "Lighter" setting. That's a good thing.

    Maybe what you're describing isn't the same as what I'm thinking about, though, since you seem to feel it's a problem.
     
  4. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    I've seen this as well. My mits has a dead center color decoder. DVDs look very natural.

    But cable? forget about it. I've seen color all over the place. Some channels are pretty good like discovery and HBO. Others are way red or over saturated.

    I think its just another example of just how poor some of these channels really are.
     
  5. BruceSpielbauer

    BruceSpielbauer Second Unit

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    As a previous reply pointed out, many cable signals contain a sort of "built in" red push on some stations, while others seem to have none. The same is often true with other issues, such as edge enhancement, or sharpness issues. You can get your set so some stations have detail, and change the station, and, ARGHHH!. You can get your set so flesh tones look natural on five or six stations, and then try a seventh, and ARGHHH! Red push!

    This is the fault of the local Cable company, typically. The stations are actually broadcast with more consitency. But, the quality of "engineers" who are supposed to be monitoring the feeds at cable TV outfits is often sadly lacking. And, they may be trying to monitor it on a tiny, less than professional grade 19" monitor, which is poorly calibrated to begin with. So, their minor mistake in color correction or tint or gamma adjustment may not even be noticable when they view the image. You blow that image up to 47" or 55" or 57" or 65", and you get ARGGH!

    So, MOST of my cable stations now look okay, on my 65" set. However, I am distracted by red push on the History Channel (on my own local cable system), to the point where I rarely watch it on that set, although I love the content. And, my TNT is almost as bad.

    There is also inconistency in satellite, although it seems to typically be less.

    And, the truth be told, there is even inconsistency in broadcast TV (for those viewing over the air, through an antenna), but these engineers TEND to be among the best, and so those problems are much more rare.

    So, since you have a Samsung, I have to ask this... Are the settings are all individual, for each separate incoming signal? (On my Mits, this is true). Or, if you cahnge the tint or the color, does this also affect the tint and the color on the DVD signal? Have you tried matching the settings for the Cable exactly to your settings for the DVDs? What does that look like?

    And, regarding your Godfather experience... I do not have that DVD. However, I do own some which are incredible transfers, and which sparkle on my RPTV. And, i have rented many which look rather mediocre, with edgeenhancement, or red push built in, or blotchy looking blacks, or lousy detail, or garish oversaturation. This has caused me to pay close attention to DVD reviews, and to always check those which actually review thie video transfer, as well as the film. Some reviews do this (DVD Talk, or Widescreen Review, or DVD Etc Magazine, etc.) Some do not (Premier Magazine, or Entertainment weekly, for example). I own a copy of Schwarzenneger's "True Lies" where the transfer is so horrible that i can barely stand to watch it, due to the edge enhancement and the horrible sunburns and red flesh tones. (Note: I have COMPLETELY eliminated the red push from my Mits, to 0%, and also have reduced all artifical edge enhancement, by the way).

    -Bruce in Chi-Town
     
  6. Gregg_Fritz

    Gregg_Fritz Extra

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    on a Samsung you only have control over the blue-red ratio if you are in a custom settings config. So as you drop red out you are adding blue.

    Then you have the option of warm 1, warm 2, cool 1 and cool 2, normal, enhanced,and movie.

    Those settings drastically affect the red push or brightness levels.

    I found a few of the base settings to be acceptable, but the best picture is custom config through the use of the Avia claibration disk.
     

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