Red Push Calibration Question on Sony 32FS420

Discussion in 'Displays' started by MikeEckman, Oct 29, 2004.

  1. MikeEckman

    MikeEckman Screenwriter

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    I recently got a Sony WEGA 32FS420 HDTV and have been tinkering with it to get the picture the way I like it.

    I've been able to get the geometry very accurate. Much more than older WEGAs I've done, and I've gotten the black and white levels to a point where I am happy with them.

    My only remaining area of improvement is with the color red. I am otherwise happy with all other colors, but whenever I am watching something with a very bright red object (I was watching an Episode of Friends last night on DVD and Phoebe was wearing a bright red sweater and the saturation was excessive).

    I know there are settings for red push in the Sony service menu, but this new WEGA has a completely different service menu than I am used to, and I don't know all the codes.

    I lowered RDRV about 10 and got it to a point where its a lot better, but that also effected the other colors. I still think there should be a way I can improve this.

    Does anyone have any recommendations that I could do to help with this? My older WEGA didn't have such red saturation, maybe thats just a quirk with my model.

    Oh, and for what its worth, I am displaying my DVDs using Component Video cables, not HDMI or S-video or anything on a non-progressive scan DVD player, so I am using the TV's built in de-interlacer, but it appears to do an adequate job, so I don't think thats it.

    Sorry for the long email...thanks!
     
  2. MikeEckman

    MikeEckman Screenwriter

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  3. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Mike: have you used a test disc such as Avia to acertain whether or not your set is exhibiting red push? I am assuming yes, but you don't state so, so I just want to make sure you actually *are* seeing red push problems, and not just grayscale with too much red globally.

    Unfortunately, if you've gone through the steps and actually know for certain that you DO in fact have a color decoder that is off-standard, I can't help you in ways to fix it, since i don't know your set. But perhaps others will know.
     
  4. MikeEckman

    MikeEckman Screenwriter

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    I went through the whole service menu and looked for AXPL and AXNT and they weren't in there. I do not have Avia, but I have Video Essentials and on the color bars, red is noticably more saturated than any other color, but most significantly is the example I gave when I was watching a DVD and someone was wearing a red sweater and it was just jumping out of the screen at you.

    It seems that RCUT and RDRV are the only things I can do now. I know that messes with grayscale, but its a sufficient compromise for me unless someone knows the newer WEGAs better and can give me some tips.
     
  5. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    it is not a compromise....do not adjust the gray scale to try to fix the red push.

    Pull the color down a little and move the tint control away from red (towards green).

    Regards

    Gregg
     
  6. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Please refer to the thread "Grayscale is not color decoding" for why you don't touch cuts and drivers to fix red push.

    I've seen on the newer sets that the user menu actually has a red push control in the advanced section ... look there.

    Also look for the more traditional R-Y, G-Y controls in the SM ... should be about 4 of them if they are there.

    Regards
     
  7. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    Look under the service menu for a setting in the video section labeled "Matrix" (which -BTW- is the correct technical lingo for what is called red push in these consumer forums) There are several values and the lowest number is the minimum amount of "red push".
     
  8. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    But my point was, that you really need the color decoder check pattern to see how off you are, etc. I mean, your grayscale may be off too. In my mind, we haven't determined that it is, in fact, red push.
     
  9. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    Look at a black and white picture. If it looks OK then your color temperature(gray scale) is "good enough"(even if not perfect). If the reds were set too high on the gray scale, a B&W pix WILL look very reddish.

    "Red Push" affects ONLY colors around the red vector.
    A red object, for instance, will stand out among other colors and might even "glow" if the push is severe enough. But it will not affect color-less objects including white, grays and black.

    The matrix (red push)settings affect only color pictures.
     
  10. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Yes, I understand john, I wanted to make sure he's done this (making sure grayscale is accurate). It is still best to view a gray+color bar type pattern designed for this, such as the one on Avia, to check for red push once properly calibrated.
     
  11. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    I get your point, Chris.

    I just re-read the original thread starter and this quote from Mike "(I was watching an Episode of Friends last night on DVD and Phoebe was wearing a bright red sweater and the saturation was excessive)." Makes a 99% candidate for a red push issue.

    As no reasonable amount of red gray scale inbalance would cause that.
     
  12. MikeEckman

    MikeEckman Screenwriter

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    I did what you asked, and threw in American History X and went to some of the black and white scenes and there is no discernable amount of color in these screens. To my eyes, there is nothing wrong with my grayscale.

    I took my blue filter and checked my hue and color settings using a color bars scene on VE and am happy with the results, so I would guesstimate that my color decoder is as close as my amateur skills can get it.

    What you are describing sounds exactly what I am seeing. Red objects "glow" moreso than other colors to. I am no expert at this, but I am pretty sure what I am seeing is red push (or matrix if that is the correct term).

    I will go through the service menu again tonight and check for the matrix settings and see if that helps matters any. Like I said above, I am fairly certain I have everything where it needs to be with the exception of the excessive red.

    For what its worth, when I first got this set home, my mom was with me and we watched Dawn of the Dead, she was very impressed with the picture, and this was even before I calibrated anything. (My mom is not HT saavy)

    Anyway, just the other night she came up to check out what I was watching, and she immediately noticed an improvement in the picture and asked what I did. I told her I've been calibrating the settings on the TV to improve the picture and she asked why all TVs aren't calibrated when you buy them. I told her cause then geeks like me would have nothing to figgle with! [​IMG]
     
  13. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Ok, you've convinced me! I just wanted to be sure is all, before people go jumping to conclusions [​IMG].

    I've made the mistake in the past of having grayscale a little off and thinking it was red push, because i was in the wrong color temp setting, so I just wanted to be sure that the grayscale lookes ok first.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    hi

    I checked my manuals...the closest set I found was the 32FS100. It has a AXPL and AXNT parameters. the first is for PALS color axis, the second is for NTSC.

    Best wishes

    Gregg
     
  15. MikeEckman

    MikeEckman Screenwriter

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    Thanks for the info, but I did check for that, and those parameters are no longer used on the new WEGAs. The service menu was different from any other WEGA I've seen. There were a lot of new parameters I had never seen before.

    One notable one was the one that used to be called ASP (this is the one used to correct over compression in 16x9 mode), it is now called ASPT.
     
  16. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    then it will be as Michael TLV said OR the Axis parameter.

    regards

    Gregg
     

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